An Interview with the Editors: Catholic Christian Meta-Model of the Person

0:14What is the Catholic Christian meta model of a person? That's the question. Right. And what it is, it is this vision, a vision of the person that grows out of three wisdom traditions. And when you have three points of perspective, you always have a richer reality. The three points of perspective are the three wisdom traditions from which we draw: the philosophical tradition of of the West, the theological tradition of the Catholic Christian tradition, and the psychological tradition which is the faith, the the science informed, the science based, approach to the person. And so the metamot of the person from these three perspectives has developed 11 lenses to see the person with greater clarity.

0:59And those lenses, are elements, if you will, of a deep understanding rooted in the tradition, and they involve the way that the person is created. Created in God's image and likeness, the first theological premise. That they're fallen but redeemed the the two next, theological premises. And with that vision, the model itself has more in terms of its, philosophical, psychological perspective where it focuses on the unity of the person, the person flourishing in vocations, flourishing in virtues, and the way that each person is interpersonally knit, created from the very beginning. The the model itself has also four anthropological premises that I identify how embodied we are, how we know, and how we love.

1:53And the knowing and loving comes from a very the deep level, the sensate reality of the model is the sensory perceptual cognitive dimension of knowing the person in the way that they interact with the world. The emotions come out of the that encounter with the world and it's the second area, on the anthropological dimension of the Meta Model. And it's it's finished out with the reason and will which are so important in terms of our intellectual capacities. The metamol itself serves in in real ways to give a better understanding of the person, the family, society. It serves a deeper understanding of the client and psychology. And it also serves, if you will, to bolster the clinicians' understanding of their call, their call as Christians, in the way that they can use their conscience to guide them in ways that are sure.

2:51The Catholic Christian mental model of a person needs to be put into concrete application. And it is a framework that does just that. As a larger vision of the person allows them evidence based practices to be used with greater clarity and surety and if you will measure. And that is in a nutshell, the Catholic Christian mental model of the person. And how is it different from existing models of the person? Well, the existing models are in psychology, and, there's a big difference between the Catholic Christian meta model and the existing models, and not a big difference, several big differences. First of all, as was already mentioned, we have the three wisdom traditions. These are three layers of understanding the person.

3:41Theological, philosophical, and psychological. And so we identify the theological or purposeful aspects of our model and of the person and the philosophical understanding of it. And of course, with that comes the moral framework as well. And existing models of the person almost never say anything about what their philosophical assumptions are. They never say anything about, their so called purposes or or almost nothing about their, goal in life for the person. And, therefore, we have made those levels and those ways of understanding the person explicit so that, we hope others will follow suit now and suddenly, you know, be frank about what their philosophical, moral, and, purposeful assumptions are, which they didn't do in the past.

4:40In addition, we have in the model, an emphasis on virtues and an emphasis on vocation as the basis for our flourishing as humans. Now, of course, psychology does talk about the virtues thanks to positive psychology, but there's no model of the person or personality that includes the virtues, much less any that includes vocation. So those are important additions. And one final thing that's important, not only do we have those three levels, those three wisdom traditions, but we have them integrated. So we show how something that's described at the theological level like the love of God and love of neighbor, how that concept of love has its, different but interesting, development in philosophy and then how love has its own specific and particular development in psychology normally in the in the literature on attachment and bonding.

5:38So we show that the levels are not just separate, but they mutually interact with each other. They mutually resonate, if you will. And that vision of the person that the meta model develops is not just at the theoretical level. It's also applied in clinical work. And it really does four things for the profession, the mental health profession. First of all, we have this expanded vision of the person. And that expanded vision of the person allows us to see more of the person, to be able to diagnose human problems in a more complex way instead of looking at them in a kind of shallow way. In addition, it allows us to inform the way we do basic clinical activities. For example, in the case of something like assessment and diagnosis and treatment planning, it allows us to see a bigger picture, to see a richer picture.

6:38So for example, if we were to take a case of a young man coming in who's a husband, who has a couple of children and he's in his work life and he's very anxious, very anxious about the things going on at work. Well the meta model would say, yes we do need to consider all of the symptoms of anxiety and we do need to help this client with issues around the workplace, but we would first want to get a bigger picture of this person's life. And so we would ask this gentleman about how is his marriage going, how are his relationships with his children, how is he parenting with his spouse. And from that, we would get a lot more information about how things are going, both the positive and the things that are not going well.

7:31And that's another thing about The meta models encourages us to take both a positive perspective, not just a deficit perspective of human problems. And this makes a big difference because in the context of trying to think about how to do treatment, we would also understand what resources we have. So many folks in the field who might encounter this gentleman might decide to do individual work with him with his anxiety, but we may see that his marriage is a real resource for him and, his spouse can be very supportive. And so we might choose to do couples therapy instead of individual therapy. But I think the big big picture issue around the meta model is that it looks at problems in a a very, positive way in terms of how we are going to be able to help people.

8:29We have a more of a sense of not just looking at the problem, but but really looking at positive strengths. The other thing that the meta model does in addition to influencing practice is when we're with a client, it helps us to look at them in a very, very special way. The emphasis in the meta model is on the uniqueness of each person. And so we don't stereotype. We really look at the uniqueness of this person in their life. And another thing that the meta model emphasizes is the freedom of the individual, the freedom to change, the freedom to make life choices. And finally, the meta model emphasizes the dignity of the person, and that comes from this created in the image and likeness of God.

9:18And it it gives us utter confidence, in the worth wildness of human life and the importance of each individual person and their capacity for change. And finally, the meta model does something that is really valuable for the clinician and that is that it enables the clinician to have clarity and support for their Christian identity as a mental health professional. Some people might think that the meta model would would only be appropriate for Christian clients, but that's not the case. Many important aspects of the meta model are totally neutral with respect to, the faith of the person. We do argue that we think the faith of the patient is important and it can be often seen as a strength that can help facilitate therapeutic gain.

10:14And in that sense, we've already noticed that one of our that one of our colleagues who's done something similar to this with who he's a Jewish psychologist and he's already, found that I think in his cognitive behavioral therapy works better if he brings it with Jewish patients when he brings in their Jewish framework and so forth. So although we have an explicitly Christian one, it we could certainly suggest to others if they wanna put in, you know, a Jewish theological level, they'd probably use the same first one that we have which is all based on the Old Testament. But, anyway, that so it's open to others to develop. I testament. But, anyway, that so it's open to others to develop out of ours that kind of notion.

10:55And furthermore, for even, unbelievers, the model is is quite appropriate in many ways. As clinical psychologists or counselors, we in no way are interested in using the model to try to, influence somebody to convert them or to change their religion. That's not at all, acceptable, and it's not at all part of the model. But, the psychological level of the model is very appropriate for anyone. And in particular, the notion that the person has intrinsic dignity and that all people have it, That's true whether you're an atheist, a skeptic, or, whatever other framework you're coming from. In addition, our emphasis on the virtues, that's a universal, positive thing that, is found around the world.

11:45So to encourage virtue development with with your clients is certainly, open to everyone and that we all have vocations. Now, of course, as Christians, we think of vocations as coming from God, but, you know, many people have vocations that they hear, well, they have a vocation to be an athlete. They have a vocation to be a doctor or they have other but it doesn't have to have a theological meaning for us in in when implying the model to just be concerned with the vocation aspect of our of our patient or our client. We are broadly interested in how their marriage is working or how their development toward flourishing is working or we're very interested in their job and how that's helping the community and themselves.

12:35So those are all things that are open to everyone and have no special, restriction to just being Catholic or Christian. Yeah. In my experiences in, consulting with colleagues who are of many different faiths and some folks that are not believers, when I do an analysis using the meta model, they at the end of it, they usually say, wow, that's a very comprehensive, look at this case. So the history of the the meta model is really one that can be told in various ways. We told in terms of the persons who were participating in the whole development of the model as a vision, But also it can be told conceptually the way that the model itself has developed over time in concepts. And the deepest, if you will, starting point for the meta model was that faith and reason are complementary, that they go together, that we need both in order to have the larger vision of the person and their family in society.

13:36And it is, in that it was in that time frame that when we started to develop explicitly the metamodel, that John Paul the second wrote as encyclical on faith and reason. Since then also there's been, if you will, Pope Benedict's Pope Emeritus, Benedict the sixteenth's insight that reason, needs to be broadened. And the broadening of reason allows a deeper understanding of faith. And the meta model is just that. It is grounded in faith informed reason, reason which draws upon the best of the psychological sciences and mental health practice. And we can really, we have seen that our approach involves a serious engagement with theology, deep understanding of the person and their dignity, a serious in in engagement with philosophy and its wisdom and its history of studying the person, but also a very deep and, if you will, engaged work with the psychological sciences and mental health practice.

14:41And it is, if you will, in that regard, the development has started. It hasn't finished. And in great humility, we have to say even though a book now is being published, has been published on the Catholic Christian Meta Model of the Person, the book is, if you will, one instance in the life of this vision, which is, if you will, deeply rooted in the persons and in reality. So it needs to be in various ways continued, uplifted, deepened. The second edition will come certainly one day. Well in addition to that, the history is it's a long history for the development of the meta model. It's been developed primarily through the faculty of the Divine Mercy University over the past twenty years, but it's also involved a wide variety of scholars from all over the world who have been working together to try to understand the human person.

15:38At that level, it's been a very multidisciplinary type of project in that that we've had many theologians, philosophers, and, of course, a a large number of different, disciplined psychologists and mental health professionals, counselors, all working together, at a common mission to, first of all, understanding what a Catholic Christian metamodel of the person or vision of the person is. And then how do we begin to apply this in everyday practice? And so there's both the theoretical side and the practice side, and that's been a a long and enriching kind of experience to work with all of these wonderful people in order to be able to examine the meta model and its application. And now I wanna show you what it meant what the meta model looks like because finally, the first really official publication of it is out.

16:38And here it is, with us as the three editors and, with you as having a treat in front of you that maybe you'll, investigate directly, not through our comments, but through your own reflection on reading it. And of course first buying it. Thank you.