PsyD webinar with 1st year student Joshua Elmore

0:06Welcome to the PsyD webinar. I'm Bradley Cypher, and I'm the PsyD admissions advisor here at Divine Mercy University. Today, I'm joined by first year doctoral student, Josh Elmore. So, should you have questions at any time during, our presentation or conversation, please please lodge them in the chat box, and, Josh and I will attend to them at the end of our conversation or at the end of the presentation. Also as a note, I've listed in in the chat box my email as well as the Calendly link as well as other resources in the chat box. So please send me an email, register for time to speak with me in the Calendly, and I look forward to talking to all of you. Okay. Welcome, Josh. Thanks, Bradley.

0:51Okay. So, Josh, let's begin with this. How did you become interested in clinical psychology? I think it began, towards the end of my years in seminary. So I spent two years in Catholic seminary, after I had completed my undergrad. And at when I completed my undergrad, I wasn't necessarily looking to to go to graduate school, but I felt a calling to, discern the priesthood, by going to seminary. And so it was really during that time. So I had studied some psychology in my undergrad, and it raised a lot for me, and I wasn't getting a lot of answers to those questions. And so, during my time in seminary studying philosophy, there's a lot of of those same questions that I had that, like, psychology had raised for me that it I couldn't really find an answer to, that it'd be like, the philosophy studies began to to speak to that.

2:00And so it's throughout my time studying philosophy there, all of it just kind of kept getting the answers I was getting and just my interests were all getting directed towards, psychology. And so, yeah, just during that time as my I guess, as of the two semesters before I I left, I took an elective course. I was looking on, the philosophy of science, gender, and sexuality. And it was during that time that, so this was an elective, and there's a rotation of, guest lectures. I came in one of them. Graduate of Divine Mercy University's program, doctor Andrew Sodergren. And he gave a guest lecture and that like, he kinda he brought up the I or he had mentioned that he had graduated from Divine Mercy University.

2:57And so that's really when, the idea of actually doing psychology kind of popped back into my mind because it's something I thought about doing earlier on when I was in my undergrad. And so, yeah, it just kinda reemerged and then all like, I kept finding myself going back to DMU's I kind of like seeing what this sort of integration, thing is that they're they're that we're doing here. And, yeah, so it just kinda sparked a curiosity and then just, yeah, like I said, the study of philosophy, it really kind of was answering a lot of questions, and in ways that I thought was a lot of that had a lot to speak to psychology and just kind of understanding the rich, intellectual tradition of the church.

3:46It just seemed that there is a lot that, was needed, to be to psychology. And so, yeah, when I left the seminary, it just kinda seemed like the the next logical step was to actually, like, go and study clinical psychology and actually be, like, part of part of, like, DMU's mission. What I came to know is, like, integrating philosophy, theology, and psychology, bringing that all together. And it's like, that's what I wanted to do. And so, yeah, then I started talking to you, and, now we're here. So Yeah. Yeah. That's right. So right. So it sounds like, you know, you've, you know, given your seminar information and your time there. And then the questions that philosophy and and theology raised, sort of were intriguing to you, and then you just turned out.

4:38But these sort of, these these these topics and these questions kind of remain with you. And then, you know, you encountered, doctor Sondergren, and, one thing led to another. You talked to me, and and and here you are. Say a little bit more, though, about, divine like, why you chose divine mercy. It, you know, it sounds as if, like, that would for, you know, for someone who was in the seminary that this would be, in many ways sort of like an obvious choice for for that type of, profile. Let's say a bit more about, what attracted you to DMU. Yeah. So I think it was really just con the way that DMU really was holding up both or all three of, you know, theology, philosophy, and psychology, together without them because it's, like, really something really easy to do is to, you know, kind of fall into, like, kind of a reductionist path where you start cutting out one, or the other.

5:48And so the and, like, that was one of my concerns when I first started looking at DMU. I was like, is this a is it authentic, like, in terms of, like, you know, holding, you know, the spiritual intellectual tradition of the Catholic church? And is it, you know, rigorous in psychology well. So those were, like, two questions that I had when I began looking. And, just through the interview process and just finding out more of it from you in our initial conversations, It just became evident that that really was the case of what DMU wanted to do and, like, you know, becoming familiar with the, Catholic Christian meta model of the person. It's just like all of these things are being held intention, with each other, supporting each other.

6:44And so that's what I felt was was really necessary. I think especially, for effective psych like, practice of psychology, that's just necessary. Because I kind of in seminary as well, like, all the seminarians, we received counseling. That is, generally pretty well integrated. And I just saw the power that that had in people's lives. And so it's like, I really, you know, want to be able to do that. DMU just seemed like it was the best place that I could go to, like, prepare me to, like, serve serve others in the way that I had been served in that. Yeah. Good. Yeah. No. No. Thank you for that. So say a bit about your own academic and clinical interest. So, I mean, here you are at Divine Mercy, and you're sort of you're in your first year, of coursework.

7:41You know, where do you see yourself, after graduation? Where would you like to focus your your research, for your dissertation here, and your sort of your future, within the profession? Yeah. So I'm my dissertation, it's I'm still in the process of narrowing down exactly what I wanna do, but it's more on the developmental edge of things. So looking at how do we form, like, specifically high schoolers or emerging adults well. How do we, you know, prepare them well, set them up well to be able to make to to make good decisions, but also just, kinda see and understand themselves and the world around them in a way that is, that's authentic and that is healthy for them. And so there's kinda two angles I'm looking at for the dissertation.

8:43DMU has been working on a project. There's a couple students ahead of me that have been working with the local high school, to to develop curriculum for, high for high schools to have their students go through to be well, according to the Catholic Christian meta model of the person. And so what I would be looking at potentially if I were to go this route would be just kind of seeing what is out there, what sort of formation there is out there, what curriculum there is out that is out there, and seeing, you know, where where the holes what's actually being done well and then where the holes, would be for, like, someone after me to come and, you know, maybe fill that in, with a a curriculum, I believe, yeah, based on the CCMP.

9:37But then also looking at potentially emerging adults as well and see and basically helping them create, make, and commit to, like, meaningful, yeah, just making meaningful commitments in their life to, yeah, just set them up well and to kind of help them move beyond this stage of, like, ambiguity and just uncertainty and, just sort of endless exploration. So those are kind of the two main academic interests for the the dissertation side of things. And so afterwards, I could see myself either working, like, in a, at a university clinic, helping students, or also I'd be interested in just helping, adult populations, families, within, like, the Catholic sphere to, yeah, just have better better, family life, etcetera.

10:40Yeah. Yeah. Excellent. Excellent. So, I'm not I'm not exactly sure I understand the the hypothesis, though, for the dissertation. Is it that the like, having a a better formation, especially this or this, the meta model, is sort of can become a a catalyst whereby emerging adults are more likely to enter into more meaningful lives with more with healthier relationships and, getting into their vocation, whether it be marriage or or priesthood or the consecrated life or something like that. Is that is that sort of the the idea behind it? Yeah. Yeah. So I'm still working on, yeah, flushing it out, but that's kind of the idea of seeing exactly where the meta model can step in, and support young adults in making, yeah, meaningful commitments towards, vocation, whether it's, you know, like, marriage, religious life, priesthood, single life, or, you know, their work life to give them, you know, a sense of stability.

11:54And so, yeah, I'd be looking at how exactly can we, yeah, using the meta model, like, bring that about for people and seeing, you know, I guess beginning to answer the question if, like, the meta model could or if or how the meta model can be a support for those in their college years and beyond. Yeah. That's great. I think it's, incredibly timely, and probably very important area of research. It's it's funny. I I I I once heard somebody say that, you know, once discernment has become so popular now in in recent years, no one has been making a decision. So, yeah, I I I think I think that's I think that's really good. I I I, so I I commend you for that. Okay. So, what given your, you know, your experience thus far, you know, in our in our program, what in your opinion, has been some of the most rewarding and enjoyable parts of it?

12:56And then say a word then also about the part of that's been sort of the most challenging or the most the most difficult. Yeah. So I think one of the more rewarding things has just been my colleagues and the professors, etcetera here. I've it's a very collaborative environment. Like, it's not it's not really like, we are striving for greatness, but we're not, like, competing with each other. We're, you know, we're all on the same team. And so it's, just a very supportive in terms of classes, I think there's, like, one of my favorite ones so far has been our basic interviewing and clinical skills course where it's just kind of, like, learning, like, how to be in the therapy room with clients, how to, like, properly communicate empathy and actually not even just communicate it, but, like, experience it as well, actually being able to take on take on what they're experiencing instead of, like, leaving it as something that's kinda external to us, actually entering into their world and understanding, yeah, what what, their experiences are like and the affective sense and just how to respond to that.

14:23I think that's been a rewarding class. I think challenging, it has been really probably, I think, one of the main thing that's challenging It's a product of, like, our the integration here is that the courses are just, like, really to just all the classes are Canada, and we're trying to really, like I mean, this is project, with the the integration piece. Like, how do we, how do we, yeah, really Catholic theology philosophy to psychology. How do that's just a constant question that, like, every student has to, like, come to understand for themselves, and not in an entirely relativistic way, but, we all have our particular question going on. And so it's it's really, stretches you to kinda, like, brid you're bridging all your forces together.

15:41So it's, you know, it's like, what does flourishing look like for people who struggle with, like, antisocial behavior and stuff like that? You know, those are big questions that's, like, you can't really answer in a textbook. And so, it's a yeah. It's a really challenging because it's just it's like, this project is so big and we don't really make, I we don't cut corners in trying to answer answer as well. Okay. That's very good. Now for those listening, what would be some very good, reasons for pursuing the doctorate in psychology, and what would be some maybe some not so good or some some bad reasons for for for going down this path? Yeah. I mean, the the bad reasons come very quickly to mind.

16:34I think just if it's sort of, like, a status thing, like, you want doctor in front of your name, a little side y, at the end of your name. It's like that's not a particularly good reason to of this a profession that serve people. It's not aimed at yourself. It's aimed at the clients that we're gonna be serving and just the general public. And, you you know, for people of faith, it's we believe that it's like a vocation and Molly, like, in response to God. So it's not about, like, really yourself in any way. But it in some sense, it's like there is a there are callings, and so there is a sense of fulfillment. So on the on the other side, the positive side, it's like if this is something that's like you know, you have a lot of these questions of, you know, what it like, really, what is the good life?

17:42What is flourishing? And how do I how do I help other people reach that, I think that's a pretty good reason to to, begin considering, side like, the doctoral program here. But even, like, further than that because in some sense, you can do that with just a counseling. And so I think a good reason beyond just, you know, how like, helping others in the therapy room, it's helping a good reason to pursue it is, like, you want to help, really, like, bring this bring the this integration project to, to broader areas. You wanna be the be a person that's helping, make these changes and supporting, you know, the rest of the the scientific community and this project of I think that's a that's a pretty good reason to be joining the program.

18:43And then also considering the assessment side of things, like, really bringing the respect for the dignity of the human person into these the testing, which at time if it's done inappropriately and not in a therapeutic sense, it can be very, demeaning to a person to to, like, bring just apply these numbers to them. But it's like there is a way in which if you're from an integrative perspective, with empathy and in a from a therapeutic mindset, if you're looking to help people in that sense to get them, on the right direction to help them get the support that they need or, help them if they there isn't yeah. Just help them get on the avenue that is most appropriate for them for them to flourish.

19:35I think those are all, really good reasons to to come to DMU's program. Yeah. Well well said. Excellent. Now, somewhere in there, you mentioned counseling. You know? So why would one want to pursue the doctorate? It's five years of study. It's rigorous. It's an on campus affair. Why do that instead of why getting why get why go through all that for the doctorate instead of doing a master's in counseling? Yeah. So I think one one major reason I mean, even though the PsyD isn't research entirely, like, research focused, like a PhD program, it's really in the PsyD program, you are you still have to do the dissertation. So you are bringing about these, like, real changes in the broader, scientific community.

20:38So you are in a sense you are really directing helping direct the research in in directions it needs to go that you that you just wouldn't be doing in, masters of counseling program or counselor generally. So I think that's one of the big reasons. And it's, in some sense, when you go all the way obviously, people with masters in counseling can become leaders as well, but there there is a way in which as a side d, you're a little bit more, embedded in the the research. Like, we we just have to go through so many research articles and through the course of, you know, five years. It's there's a really deep, like, we you you come to into a deep encounter with the the, the scientific literature that you wouldn't really in a, in a counseling program.

21:41And so, yeah, there's just that sort of sense where you're really, like, embedded in the research and you you you know it, especially with your dissertation topic. You become an expert in that particular field. And so that's a really a place where you can begin to make changes, in the broader field when you graduate. You on, making those changes. And then as a society, you become you can you get to help train, new psychologists. You can oversee them and help help guide them, in ways that maybe you wouldn't be able to as, as a counselor. Yeah. Also very well said. Okay. Given your experience so far in our Psydu program, what would be maybe two or three of the most impactful and formative ideas that you've encountered so far in the coursework?

22:42Yeah. I think one of the ideas that really has struck me and stayed with me, came from first semester. Just understanding is from that basic interviewing and clinical skill course that I had mentioned. But understanding the importance of just kind of like, giving space, for your clients, like, to just encounter person in a really deep way and in an authentic way and just how that relationship is is really the most foundational aspect of healing. It is, like and we talked about this, how it is important what, like, mode of therapy you're using. It's important to be using empirically validated, forms of treatment. However, it's like every all everything else is built on the therapeutic relationship.

23:44And so it's like being able to, establish a good your clients is in itself therapeutic. And another idea I think that's that has stood out to me recently would be, from my adult psychotherapy class and where it's like we're going through, but, you know, looking through what it's like to have sort of a, borderline tendencies or, be kind of in the psychotic range and just kind of be beginning to see these people, like, as really as human, because in a lot of ways, popular popular culture and just in general society, it can be, like, a little off putting. But just coming to see, like, these the humanity, like, that that really is lying at the core of, these people people's deep suffering. I think that's been, something that's been enriching as well.

24:49Yeah. Excellent. Now, you know, you had mentioned, the pro earlier on the project of integration that's sort of at the center of our mission into the MRC. You You know? And we talk much about the meta model of the human person and and bringing together philosophy, theology, and psychology. But what concrete difference does this make in a therapeutic setting? So as a clinician, so we you know, it's like you can speak much about the philosophy of a human person in Christian anthropology, thinking of man as a composite body and soul unity, a single substance, rational nature, things like that. There's we're intellectual or spiritual, but we're also material. Right? But, what, like, what actual difference does any of that make for the clinician?

25:46Yeah. I think one that immediately jumps out to me is it impacts just sort of the the modes of therapy that you're using, what sort of, like, programs you're implementing, and and even it it gives you the ability to use sort of multiple, schools of therapy. So you can be, like, from the integrative perspective, you can perhaps, like, lean more into the psychodynamic side of things, but you can you can also simultaneously realize it's like that the cognitive behavioral side of things as well is very useful too. And so you can find ways, to help to help your client in both schools of thought where as if you only get trained in CBT, that's really, like, only doing. And that that's just kind of limiting because we know the person is more, beyond just their their cognition and their behavior that they have free will.

26:51Because if you really subscribe to the the behavioral side of things, it it becomes kind of muddy whether or not we have free will. And so, like, the you know, from the integrated perspective, we can say, yes. They have free will, but there's also this this behavioral, and the yeah. That the behaviorist side of things, it does have a a big point because, you know have the our experience in life do embed themselves within, you know, our minds and our bodies, and it has an effect on our behavior. And there there are ways that we can can affect that. I think also, yeah, going back to the idea that it it impacts the the, modes of therapy that that you're choosing because it really I think the the meta model really makes clear that we that all psychologists are operating out of some framework out of some presupposition of, like, of what flourishing is, what health is, etcetera.

27:57And so the like, operating out of integrated perspective, you become aware of that in yourself and in your clients and your you can be intentional about the way that you're implementing modes of therapy, and realizing that some of these may not actually be be as effective for your clients because they don't they have a worldview that if they're, say, Christian or Catholic or that they have a worldview where flourishing goes beyond just feeling, you know, having good feelings. It's about, you know, making good choices, making meaningful, commitments in their life, etcetera. And so it's like you can kind of yeah. It it really affects the sort of the modalities that you're using to to treat your clients as well.

28:47And just conceptualizing them as well. They go beyond just their their immediate presenting problems. You can begin to see the that exist, within the person and how how those might be interacting. So you can you just get a really much more broader view of the person, and then it helps you make more informed decisions about what sort of therapy they're using or that you're implementing with them. Yeah. That's great. Thank you. I mean, this is I asked this out of total curiosity. So if, like, if you don't know what it is, it's fine. But you mentioned behaviorism. I mean, if you actually, like, subscribe to behaviorism, why and, Emily, you maybe you don't think that, you know, the human person is actually free, like, that you're a determinist.

29:35It's like, why do therapy at all? Mhmm. Yeah. It it seems I don't know the answer, because this is something I experienced in my undergrad, studies that really had me confounded. Because, yeah, it's like if you're just, you know, material particles, you know, kinda colliding in a particular way, it's like, how do you make the decision to do therapy? How to like, what is yeah. If it's determined, so it's like, what is therapy really? It just seems like an accidental happenstance in the grand scheme of whatever the cosmos is. Like, it it just it it doesn't seem entirely coherent if you, adopt a pure behaviorist standpoint where it's, yeah, entirely determined. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it it just seems it was kinda funny.

30:37Like, because it almost I I I venture to say that, like, even the very practice of psychotherapy, for it to be, you know, cogent probably assumes that the human person, you know, is free because it's sort of like, what else would therapy purport to be doing? Right? I mean, because it's sort of like, you it's not the goal of therapy to enable freedom. Right? In order to enable freedom, you have to you have to assume that, you know, the human person is free and that freedom is possible, and that that therapy can serve as a catalyst for, leading somebody into a greater, like, a life of flourishing where freedom is is more readily actualized. Yeah. Yeah. I totally agree. Because I think a way that this is, you know, somewhat bridged is, I think of just from my adult psychotherapy course that we're taking.

31:42It's like we don't necessarily chew like, people don't choose the sort of pathologies that they have necessarily, but they do have choice to choose to, you know, do something about it. And that's really where the the free will comes in. And it's like that's kind of the as that's, like, a necessary foundation to to therapy is helping your client choose what is good for them. Excellent. Well said. Alright. Let's leave it there. I would like to transition to the, PowerPoint. So bear with me, and I'll share my screen with everybody here. Alright. Okay. This is the overview of the doctoral program, in clinical psychology at the University. So I'm going to go through this again just as a reminder.

32:39If you have a question as we go through any of this, lodge them in the q and a box, and Josh and I will field them at the end. And I I I also, additionally, you know, as I get those, I'll be, in conversation with Josh, and he'll chime in offering his own, insight given his experience with us, thus far. Okay. So Divine Mercy is a Catholic graduate school of psychology founded in 1999 as the institute then as called the Institute of Psychological Sciences, dedicated to the scientific study of psychology with a Catholic Christian understanding of the person, marriage, and family. The expansion from the naming of IPS to Divine Mercy occurred in '26 2016 to facilitate growth and add a counseling program at the graduate level.

33:24So we are one major university with two distinct schools. We have a school of counseling, which is offers a master's of science, online, primarily, though it's it's also hybrid in the sense that, our counseling students do return to campus episodically for, clinical hours and things like this. Also, we retain the name as to the psychological sciences for our psychology programs, both the doctorates, which is what we're talking about right now, and also the, we also offer a master of science in psychology. This is an entirely online program. It's not clinical. It's a generalist program in psychology that gives people an a very, sounds, foundation in the meta model, the into our integrative approach to understanding a human person in, a a in a general way.

34:16Our university seeks to integrate to provide students with an effective academic and educational environment that supports the integration of the psychological sciences and a Catholic Christian a Catholic Christian understanding of the person through teaching and learning both knowledge and critical skills. It also suits assist students intellectually and professionally as they prepare themselves to respond to the location as mental health professionals or as men and women helping professions. We're located in Sterling, Virginia, which is, in Northern Virginia outside of the nation's capital, Washington, DC. We're about an hour west of the big city. To my mind, this is an excellent location.

34:55It's ideal on so many levels. We have e ready and easy access to the city and city life and all the, exciting opportunities that come with that, culture, arts, museums, and the rest of it. If you're more of an outdoors type, you know, we also have that too. You know, it's the West about an hour. There's the Appalachian Mountains in the Shenandoah Valley. The Appalachian Trail runs through, the Western part of Virginia and West Virginia. So that's also, you know, on offer as well. So there's truly, something for everybody. We are institutionally accredited by SACS, the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools. SACS is recognized by the an accreditation agency by the Department of Education, and DMU has voluntarily pursued in this accreditation process, meeting or exceeding all standards and thorough evaluation.

35:49We're also approved to operate by SHEO, the State Council of Higher Education in Virginia, and the PsyD program has been recognized since o six as a national research organization program by the Association of State Provisional Psychology Boards. And probably most, perhaps most importantly is that we're accredited by the APA, the the American Psychological Association, since 2016. Also, DME has been approved for state and national council for state authorization reciprocity agreement. So as you can see, our accreditation is extensive. So as, Josh touched upon, in our interview, maybe one of the key distinguishing elements of, PsyD training as opposed to counseling training is, research, but also testing too.

36:37There's, doctoral students at our school receive thorough training and testing and assessments, to offer, the most precise and, data driven way of diagnosing clients, which provides and, basically, the more, data that you have about somebody, the more, more you know, the better you're able to help them. So, this is a key kind of distinguishing elements of, doctoral level training. It is a five year program. This ID is a hundred and twenty two credit hours, all told. Now in terms of the breakdown of everything, I will I do want to direct you to this slide here, which kinda gives you a nice kind of overview of what to expect. As you can see, the first two years are, sort of dense with coursework.

37:28I'm sure Josh could speak to the rigor of the program. Already have been having been immersed in it for, you know, going in in within his first year. It is also a full year long program. Okay? So as you can see, there's a a fall term, a spring term, but there's also a summer term. Okay? So over the summer, our doctoral students will be in coursework, and also in the clinic. So they have academic duties, and clinical duties as well. So you wanna think about starting a doctorate in terms of a, not just a five year commitment, but also a full year long one as well. So, you we will certainly keep you busy. Also see how, the comprehensive exam is scheduled for between years three and four, typically done in the summer between those two years.

38:21Once you have successfully pitched your dissertation proposal to the faculty and you have, passed comprehensive exams, you would be considered a doctoral candidate. So you'd move from student status to candidacy status, which leaves basically the fourth year, and then the fifth year. So the third and the the third and the fourth year are a hybrid of coursework and, on campus coursework, but also clinical duties. Okay? So you divide your time kinda like part time coursework and part time clinic. By contrast, in year two, this is your first foray into your work in within the clinic. So, you we have an on campus, clinic for our second year doctoral students, that services the local Sterling area.

39:12And this is the the time that our students spends in the clinic is very much supervised by a DME faculty. You're you're assigned a, a faculty supervisor. And And then when you move to the third and fourth year, your clinical hours will be off campus. So you'll be supervised by a local clinical psychologist, in the surrounding DC area. And then in the fifth year, right, I mean, this is where they're all the coursework ceases and you're just doing clinical stuff. And where you go, of course, very much depends on your interests, within psychology. Some people choose to stay local in the DC area. These are a few local sites I wanna direct your attention to here. So Saint Elizabeth's Hospital in DC, psychiatric hospital also in DC, and then the Virginia Medical Center.

40:02These are all sites that are kind of, in our backyard as it were. They're quite popular. I mean, it's because some people just don't want to undergo yet another big and major move. And if that's you, it's completely fine. Otherwise, you're also free to uproot again and go, to wherever your internship might be. And we certainly have had students go across the country to California, to the Midwest, to the, you know, the to Colorado or what have you or up and down the East Coast. So it's, people can end up pretty much anywhere in the country. I would also add that all of our, so in the past couple of years, we've had a 100% placements into, high caliber APA accredited internship sites. And I think that that says much about the quality of the the training that you're going to receive here, at Divine Mercy and the quality of the faculty and the student body sort of at large.

41:03That number has has has grown since we received APA accreditation in 2016. So in year as you can see here, we had 85% match rates, in 2017 to '18. But since then, we've we've rapidly got to a 100 in in recent years, I think, for the past two or three years, in fact. So all I have to say is you getting into a solid APA internship is highly likely, should you come to TMU. Okay. Josh, did you wanna comment? Is there anything else I'm missing here that might be relevant, and helpful for people? I think maybe one thing is just that, yeah, you do start your clinic university, right after, you know, your you complete your first year summer semester. So it's, you know, already a year in the program and you begin, getting to see clients.

42:00And it's kind of a relief that it's on campus, so you don't have to worry about applying to external sites, etcetera. You know, the faculty that you're familiar with with that you'll be working with throughout your entire time. Like, you're gonna be, you know, getting your foundation and therapy, like, with them as well, which I think is something that is Yeah. Good. And then I I if I could piggyback just on that too. I mean, like Josh mentioned, earlier, the first year of this class, this this basic interviewing and clinical skills, right, That really is kind of, you know, propa due to the second year when you actually are seeing real clients. You know, because it's it's the program is is very well designed to kind of, build you up as a clinician going from, early stages to intermediate to advanced.

42:51I mean so, like, you know, in the basic intervening course, you know, you're going to play therapists with your colleagues. So, for example, you know, if Josh and I are students, like, I might be I might play a therapist and give you my client, and then we would reverse roles. So you're already kind of accustoming your accustoming yourself to, learning how to be, a good therapist, learning how to be empathetic, you know, because this is a crucial, virtue, for the psychotherapist. And then and then we kind of ease you into, seeing people in your second year. Typically, because we are we we understand that, you know, you're you're already still, have a full slate of courses in the second year.

43:38You're only gonna see maybe two or three clients in year two. Okay? So, you know, that's some kinda maintain the balance, you know, to not overwhelm you. Now by the time the second year is over, as you can see from this sort of graph, there's a reduction, a noted reduction courses. So with that comes, an augmentation on the amount of, people that you see. So you're gonna see more there's gonna be a greater clinical emphasis as you move through the program, and the academics will kind of dwindle off, until the fifth year where it's just sort of like you do. There's no courses at all, and you're, exclusively doing clinical stuff. Okay. A few questions of discernments. Do you want to help people flourish?

44:23Are you interested in the science behind human behavior? Do you want to become an instrument of healing through the psychological sciences? Are you interested in performing psychological tests and assessments to diagnose clients and create a treatment plan? Are you looking to start a career as licensed mental health professional and specifically as a clinical psychologist? Do you have the ability and desires for all types of clients from acute care to more challenging long term client cases? So if you're thinking yes to all these questions, if this is if this is resonating with you, then, please, contact me, email me, get into my Calendly, and we'll talk and see if it makes sense to move forward.

45:01Okay? These are the major areas of competency which aim to inculcate in all of our our students, foundations in psych science and research, integrity, and practice, assessment and diagnosis, therapeutic intervention, professional roles, and our clinical practice from Catholic, Catholic, and interpretive perspective. Okay. I'm gonna speak a little bit more about each of these here in turn. By the way, this is the, Basilica Of The Shrine Of The Immaculate Conception in Washington, where we've held graduation, historically, you know, in the past. Okay. Foundations in psych science and research. Graduates will obtain foundational psychological science knowledge of biological, effective, social, and developmental aspects of the new person as well as history and systems of psychology, psychological measurement, research, science, and statistical method.

45:56Graduates feel the skills necessary to conduct their own psychological research. Two, integrity and practice. Graduates be knowledgeable in the areas of diversity and ethics, just like critical thinking, self aware and reflective practice, and self care. Graduates will demonstrate responsiveness to supervision, collegiality, and professional compartments, and professional practice. Three, assessments. Graduates be able to conduct clinical interviewing, perform intake evaluation, demonstrate knowledge excuse me. Knowledge in the administration scoring and interpretation of psychological assessments, insert multiple sources of test data, implement interview information, and to write a report, diagnose, and the treatment plan.

46:36Four therapeutic intervention. Graduals be able to demonstrate case conceptualization, treatment planning, building and maintaining a therapeutic relationship, psychotherapy skills, crisis management, and urgent social circumstances, and discharge planning. Okay. Professional roles. Graduates be able to function in a variety of trials, professional psychologists to include consultants, educators, supervisor, practice manager, and program evaluator. They'll be able to work collaboratively within ASR teams and clients. Six, clinical practice from a Catholic and integrative perspective. Graduates looked at all to Catholic understanding of human flourishing and individual person marriage and family life and be able to integrate this with psychological sciences and clinical practice.

47:21Okay. There are a number of different settings settings in which our graduates, would work inside the, working, of course, in a psychiatric hospital alongside the traditional medical establishments with psychiatrists and the like. Being in a military establishment, there's a tremendous need right now, for psychologists, dealing with persons in the military that have experienced PTSD in particular. So those that have experienced severe trauma, getting help has been a priority for the military in recent years, as awareness about the reality of mental illness broadly and PTSD in particular has become more acute. So this is a huge one, and this can be very, well paid in some cases. Private practice, super common.

48:07A lot of people that wanna be psychologists do want to have their own practice eventually. Also, certainly outpatient clinics, diaspora consultation. This is big for DMU, biograduates, I would say, in particular. It might be obvious given our Catholic character and that's, and and in fact, Josh, you might actually be able to speak to this having been a seminary. And it's my it's my understanding that in in many diocese that receive applicants for the seminary, they require a psychological assessment. Yeah. That's correct. I had to go through an assessment, yeah, before I entered seminary. So that's a common friends with a priest who graduated from our program, and he's working because he works at the seminary, he's working on, getting other psychologists in the area to be able to kinda step into that assessment role because it's, yeah, it's absolutely needed, for everyone that's going into the seminary and religious life as well.

49:12Sure. Yeah. And and so clearly, I mean, our graduates are very much in demand in that field because it's very apropos for a DMU psychologist to, assess, perspectives of inheritance for their fitness for the priesthood. And then, of course, lastly, working in a clinical facility, also super common for, doctoral graduates. We have received legions of students that have come through our school. Okay? And they have, really come to flourish here and then go on to success thereafter in the field. These are a few testimonials. So, these are all side view on the James Waller, some clinical psychology program that training is focused on healing the whole person. Kristen Long, I was drawn to the PsyD program and desire to serve others in a more refined way than my previous positions offered.

49:59Timothy White, the school is not free to teach you what it means to be human at every level psychologically, philosophically, theologically. That's why I like it. And then Kirsten Curtis, I'm so thankful for DMU. The faculty members are very supportive and I received lots of hands on and clinical experience. Okay. This is a video testimonial from one of our own current doctoral students, William Johnson. He's done work with PTSD and combat veterans himself having come from a military background. Hi. My name is William Johnston, and I'm a PsyD student at Divine Mercy University, University, currently approaching the end of my third year in the program. Military service runs in my family, and, and so both my grandparents served.

50:56My parents both served this door, the PsyD program at Divine Mercy University opened that opportunity for me to continue to give back, to conduct research, and hopefully implement a more robust program to treat PTSD as it relates to combat veterans. DMU has certainly provided the integration that I saw in terms of my formation, both the philosophy and theology for in addition to the psychology curriculum, has provided me growth in terms of my faith, and my role as a husband and father, and, of course, a psychological clinician. So in essence, the Catholic Christian meta model of the human person is is why I'm here, both for my own sake as well as the sake of my future clients. Okay. We do have another video testimonial.

51:57This is from a recently graduated alumna. I would say that being a student at DYM Mercy University or TMU is one of the best things that happens to me. I really appreciate a great support from faculty members and also classmates. I have gained a great deal of knowledge in all aspects of clinical practice, research, and also professional development. DMU not only provides students with strong academic skills, but also prepares them for a career in psychology. I personally benefit from mentorship with academic advisor and clinical supervisors. As a person, what I most appreciate from DMU is that its mission helped broaden my perspectives in understanding a human person through the lens of Catholicism.

52:57Catholic principle, especially in hope, love, and faith are very valuable and certainly helped me become a better clinician. Good. Alright. Okay. This is a word about our faculty. The first thing to say is that we are decidedly a generalist faculty of psychology. So meaning we have, you're going to get exposed to all the major areas of psychology given our sort of broad ranging expertise for faculty, which has included, experts in basically all the conceivable fields. These are a few of many. Doctor Kluge is our dean. She's a specialist in assessment therapy. Doctor Graves is the assistant program director. Her specialization is child and developmental psychology. Doctor Orianna is our director of clinical training.

53:49These three gentlemen here at the bottom are among the founding faculty members of our school back in, 1999. Doctor Scriffani is our expert in CBT and group therapy, doctor Nordling in child marriage and family therapy. And doctor Vitz, one of my own personal heroes, intellectual heroes. So his life his own life story is, I think, very much bound up with with divine mercy. Doctor Vitz actually was an atheist, and it when when he was a young man, I get when he was once a young professor of psychology at NYU, you know, so he was at this very, you know, secular university in a in a very secular, discipline. When he basically had a conversion experience, to Catholicism. You know, he investigated all of the major world religions and philosophies.

54:41And, you know, he in part motivated because, you know, he is re he recently, became a father, and he wanna say, like, what do I what do I teach my children about, you know, what's true about the world? Or, you know, what what world view do I want to impart upon them? And, he quickly came to see that, you know, there was just that that the kind of regnant atheism that was kind of in vogue at, NYU at the time and, you know, many secular universities was mostly tacit, but also sort of, like, not very well argued for. And and that, while it seemed as if that that was what all the smart people were thinking, the the actual evidence, pointed the other direction that that that, you know, there needed to be a first cause of the universe and that, you know, the only way to really make sense of Christ was was, that he was in fact, you know, the son of God and these kinds of things.

55:36Anyway, so he he had this wonderful conversion, and then he had to grapple with the next question, which was, well, what am I gonna do? What does this mean for me as a professional psychologist, as as a professor? And he came to see that, you know, there were indeed tension. There was indeed tension between a lot of what's the humanistic psychologists of the twentieth century, taught about self actualization. You know, the idea that the human person is kind of his own end, you know, that, we find our fulfillment in kind of our in in in ourselves. And, this really kind of takes issue with this and, really kind of critiques this development of self actualization through the course of the twentieth century and and how when theology becomes jettisoned from or unmoored from, psychology, that the psychological enterprise can become a a rather much of a nasal nasal gazing kind of affair.

56:38And that that that that's the psychologist, you know, is important that they have a sort of a right understanding of, as Josh was saying earlier, of what the human person is and what the what is the finality of man. And he as as he says in this book is is in God and other people. Right? So anyway, you know, he became in league with with these other guys, Grafani and Nordling among others, and because he wanted to found a school that was different from from all the others, all the other psych schools of psychology in in precisely this way in maintaining the harmony between faith and reason, between, theology, philosophy, and psychology. And and, DMU came to be, in the late nineties, and here we are to this day in in large part because of this man's, remarkable life.

57:28Okay. A bit about this is a rather more practical matter about licensing. So, much like other professions that involve extensive, schooling such as medicine, or or law, say, you know, you have to get the doctorates prior to getting the license. So, like, you know, in law, you you go to law school and take a bar exam and and medicine. You, go through medical school to become a physician. You but eventually, you have to take the the licensure test. So too in in clinical psychology, you you have to go through the the training, get the doctorate, and then you have a year of supervision. And then then you take the test, both usually at the national and the state level, and then you're officially, you know, a licensed clinical psychologist.

58:13And there you have it. In terms of the investment, right, so, this is one of these things that are is quite unlike, the kind of thing where you buy a car and and the value of which will rapidly diminish in the years thereafter. By contrast, this is an investment that that is going to, appreciate in value. So, for for example, the twenty first century, as I'm sure many of you are aware, is rife with, mental illness, lots of isolation, lots of, loneliness, depression, anxiety, addiction, among other things. And so the demand for good psychotherapists, good psychologists is rising. It's growing rapidly. In fact, the statistics to bear this out, I mean, psychology and the need for psychology is growing 13% more than the average profession.

59:10So this is, the kind of thing where, it's very much in demand. And and especially, I would say this is even more acutely the case, for our PsyD graduates because, again, by the laws of applying demand, there's going to be so much need for, people that are able to provide precise assessments. Right? And there's so much need for assessment demand for it, and there's relatively speaking fewer people that are able to do it Basically, you know, a a, doctoral degree is necessary for that. And so with few people that will do it and lots of need for it, you know, you can make very, very good money indeed. Okay. In terms of the investments, $1,001.70 per credit for a 122 credits over five years is $142.07 40.

59:57This does not include, housing, gas, food, things of this nature. Most of our students do, take out student loans to fund it. At the same time, however, we offer a number of ways to defray the cost. So all that to say, most do not pay the full sticker price. Most do receive some sort of financial assistance. So we offer work studies on campus. This is I mean, Josh, for example, is is working in our own, with me and my colleagues in admissions office. So there there are those jobs available, but other other doctoral students will work in the business office among others. We also offer a slew of scholarships. Okay? So as you can see here, there are many to which you can apply, and they they attend to different demographics.

1:00:45So I encourage you to look at our website, divinemercy.edu,um,/financialaid. They can, the website gives a lot more, information about who's able to apply to these things and what are the application requirements. Okay? Now, in terms of entrance requirements, for for application, not not scholarship, we do require a baccalaureate degree from originally accredited school. You don't have to have studied psychology to apply. So we've received students and applications from across the academic board from hard sciences to humanities and arts and and and anything in between that. Now if you have studied psychology, all the better. Frankly, I think that, you know, it is an advantage, and we do, frankly, we do prefer it.

1:01:37But but, again, in no way is it, necessary, strictly speaking. We also do need a three o GPA on a four o scale. If you are if your GPA is somewhat less than that, you know, whatever, two eight, two nine, two two seven something in that in neighborhood, it is you know, we can make exceptions on a case by case basis. So if that's you, reach out to me, email me, and we can talk about it and and ways of moving forward despite, you know, a lower GPA. Now in terms of the application process, the first thing really to do is is if if this makes if this makes sense, you know, and and, you you you this is what he wants. The first thing to do is really apply online. Okay. That's, like, the first step.

1:02:26And then once that application is received, the financial aid office will immediately get in touch with you to help you begin the, the FAFSA among other things that are required for, financial matriculation. And then all the other documents, which I'm going to talk about a minute. Once everything else is received, we will I'll collate your application, and the team will, god willing, approve it, and then we'll invite you to campus for an interview. Okay? Now, in the present admission cycle, we are indeed, nearing the end. So here we are. It's sort of, like, early ish February, and we have one more, interview remaining for the current academic admission cycle. So that interview date is on March 8.

1:03:14Okay? The posted deadline for that is February 16. So, obviously, that is rapidly approaching. So for those of you that are, interested in getting into the school to begin in the fall, again, please get in touch with me. You know, time is running out, and, you know, there are a number of things that do need to get done in order for the application to be approved and you getting an interview. So please, don't hesitate to reach out to me, and we can, begin the process. Now in terms of all of the things that need to get done, they're sort of stated here. The first being the the online application, which I mentioned earlier, there's a $55 fee that attends that. Now once that's in the others, do you need the other things do you need to be received, namely, admissions essays.

1:04:08So these two essays, ask why, you know, you want to be a clinical psychologist, why Divine Mercy, why, why us, and what you wanna do, what area of research do you want to investigate. Your res updated resume is also required, and then also three recommendations. Now, it's important to say that these recommendations should come from academics, you know, professors that have had you as students or work supervisors. What we don't want are anything is anything personal, no, you know, family members or friends or, you know, therapists or pastors. Like, none nothing on the personal side that we want it strictly, professional or academic. Also, if you have a supervisor that's gonna recommend you, great.

1:04:59But we also don't really want as any coworker. We don't want coworker recommendations. Keep it, those that are above you, you know, your supervisor or, a professor. Okay. Of course, your transcripts. So any post secondary transcripts will be needed. So if you you got to graduate school, we'll need that as well. But, you know, if you just if you just have an undergraduate degree, that is that was advice. Alright. And then also finally, then the GRE is required. Okay? So, it's important to say, however, that the GRE, many people get very, you know, anxiety ridden over this process. But, the GRE yeah. So while required, it's simply not the most important elements of the application. So it's much more important that you get the GRE finished than it it be done perfectly.

1:05:55Okay? So if you have questions about the GRE, please let me know, and and we can talk. Okay? But once you sit for the exam, you do want to send the scores to us via our school code, which is here 5639, so that it can be sent immediately, once you take it. Okay? Finally, if you are an international student, please be aware of this. We do need your international degree to be evaluated. So if if you if you got a degree that's from another country that doesn't have the American, GPA evaluation metric, the transcript will have to get evaluated by an international evaluation service. So, a common one is west.org, okay, for the evaluation. If you have a question about this, if you're an international student, again, please get in contact with me, and we can talk more about that.

1:06:49You do need a degree that's at least equivalent, of course, to an American BA or BS degree. If it isn't in English, the degree will have to get translated. And and the cost for all this is, of course, your own. And then finally, if you regard English to not be your, primary language, and by that, I mean, you know, if English isn't the the language that you use in most of your day to day affairs, in your professional life, or in your personal life, if you mostly speak in another language day to day, you're gonna have to take the TOEFL, okay, or the IELTS academic test, okay, to make sure that, you know, your English is of a sufficiently high caliber that you can actually make it, and understand the the the material, the content material of a, a doctoral level degree program.

1:07:42Okay. I believe that's it. So let's look at, questions from our inner attendees. Okay, Adalia. I'm afraid that the presentation cannot be sent in an email. It's an internal document, and it's not meant for dissemination externally. So, you know, if you do have specific questions, however, please let me know, and I can certainly help you with that. Okay. Let's take a look at other questions. Ryan, if someone took the MS in sci program there at DMU, when any of these credits be applied to the PhD program, if one would go on to the PhD there, which track would be the best if a person was going to start by taking the MS in sci program marriage and family pre PhD leadership? Wow. Okay. So to the first thing that you're asking here, Ryan, there is no, you know, this is sort of, like, bad news, you might say.

1:08:40There's no equivalency between our own MSP and our PsyD. Okay. What what I mean by that is this. Because the MSP is, a nonclinical program and it's also, a the the terms are shorter. So there's an eight week term, in the MSP versus the fifteen week longer side e term. It's not as if you can kind of, like, move one into the other. Okay? The it's like you you just they're not transferable kinds of things. Okay? And then they also ask which track would be best if a person was going to start by taking the MSN program, marriage and family. I'm assuming what you're asking is, you know, what what should I pick in the MSP if I wanna go on for doctoral study? I mean, I think that's sort of, like, the whole, raison d'etre of the pre PhD, track.

1:09:43So, it let's just say that, you know, you want your absolutely dead set on going the PhD route instead of the PsyD. Then, yeah, doing the the MSP with us and and getting the pre PhD track, I think, is a great option. You know, if you want an academic career in psychology and you wanna do research, and and you would rather not do a PsyD with a with a very strong, like, clinical focus, then, yeah, I think the MSP, and doing the the leadership or excuse me, and doing the the pre PhD track is is a is a really good idea. Okay. Natalia, I'm Catholic and would appreciate having the interactive approach between psychology, philosophy, and theology. However, I wonder if this would limit the scope of the patients I would be able to help.

1:10:29Would this program somehow just tailored to attend Christian and Catholic patients? Great question. Josh, I I I wanna get your take on this because this is a a common question, and it's also a very good one. What do you what do you think about that? So I think that, to being able to serve anybody and being able to apply this sort of integration knowledge in any setting, like, whether you're at a VA hospital, just, you know, a secular university counseling center, or if you're in a specifically cath you know, private practice or something like that. It's meant to set you up to do well in all those all those different scenarios. Because I know the graduates go off into all different different sort of areas of the field, without any issue.

1:11:22Yeah. Right. Exactly. And I would just I would expand on that and say that maybe ironically for some, that coming from Divine Mercy, I would argue actually, makes you a more expanded clinician because, there are a plethora of people that wanna talk about religion in psychotherapy. Right? And, you know, what better clinician could there be than one that's come out of Delaunacy and is familiar with this conversation, is is very adept at having it, and is able to have it. And and this includes, you know, you, Natalia, you're asking about Catholics and Christians. I mean, like, some some many that are not Catholic or Christian still wanna talk about religion. Right? They still wanna ask these questions.

1:12:11And, you know, so here again, like, those that that train with us are very familiar with this turf, and doesn't really matter where you come from, what your worldview is. You're better able to have these conversations with people. And then, like, you know, I think like Josh was saying, though, our graduates do great in secular or, religious settings. Because, I mean, by contrast, it's not not everyone wants to go there, and that's totally fine. You know, you respect, the, your your client's wishes, and and you do, really well anyway because of the way that that you're able to approach the human person regardless of their worldview. Namely, you see them as as a person that is made in God's image and likeness and one that is owed a dignity and respect, and charity.

1:13:03Right? And so with that worldview, it's it's hard to see how there could be a better one that would make for a better therapeutic alliance. Okay. Alright. Anonymous, what is the average salary outlook of a PsyD graduate? A breakdown of what the different revenue streams look like for a typical clinician. Yeah. So, this is this can be kind of wide ranging, you know, in terms of what's, you can expect for salaries after it. It depends heavily on what area you enter, within psychology. Because some of them, you know, it's like if you end up doing something like corporate consulting, like, if you get involved with the business world and and the quite especially, like, the big businesses that wants to have, assessments done as, like, a as, like, a, a way to conduct human resources, but they hire psychologists as consultants to do this.

1:14:04Yeah. I mean, you can make a quarter of $1,000,000 doing that kind of thing. Right? But, you know, if you end up, you know, doing sort of more typical sort of, you know, getting into maybe starting your own business at at first, you know, or getting into an entry level position as a staff psychologist at at at various places, say, like, perhaps at a university, yeah, you might make, you know, somewhere between $80.90, 100, something like that, and then kind of work your way up from there. So there's a there's a big bandwidth in terms of what a clinical psychologist could make. Josh, did you wanna comment on that at all, in terms of what you know about it? Yeah. So, I mean, I obviously don't have any direct experience at this point, but I think you you pretty much hit it on the head.

1:14:53It it varies widely. It depends on, yeah, what kind of, you're going into. It also depends a lot. It can depend a lot too on, like, what geographic area that you're practicing and as well, like, what the general income is in that area can and what the cost of living, etcetera, is can, impact how much you're you, can be charging your clients. I think one thing too to note is that it's just it's very flexible in terms of, salary, especially if you have your own private practice. It's because you have multiple endeavors going on at the same time. You know, they're they're teaching three, four days a week or one in same students in the clinic, but, you know, they have they're working in private actually seeing clients.

1:15:54So there there's ways to have, like, multiple revenue streams as well, at the same time. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Well said. Okay. Also, can a portion of the coursework be completed online? So, I I say generally no if if you mean, like, can any once you're admitted to the program, you you know, can it be any part of it done online? And and that's just not the case. Being APA accredited, we have a commitment to on person in on-site education. But I also, just to, you know, give that question the latitude, if you come in and having, like, earned a a a a master's in psychology at some university and it was done partly or or online, it is possible to transfer in up to 18 credits of that depending heavily on, whether or not there's a a match between the coursework that you took elsewhere and and our own.

1:16:57So I hope that's helpful. Okay, Natalia again. Would we have license to as clinical psychologists outside The US? Yes. Per perhaps it would I think it it would depend, on the the country, you know, and and what, you know, their their their unlicensed procedures are. But, I mean, for for for example, in Europe and in in other international, communities, actually, a doctorate isn't even required. America is a little bit unique in that we the APA still requires the a doctoral level degree to practice as as a clinical psychologist. So having this ID or having a PhD from an American institution and then trying to get licensed internationally is a lot easier than the opposite. So, like, if you if you come from Europe and and you have a master's, you're like a master's level psychologist, which is a thing, you know, in Europe.

1:17:55And you try to be, you know, get licensed in America, it's it's it's a more difficult process because, you know, we have a higher standard of, academic rigor, for for psych for psychologists in America. Okay. Thank you so much for putting this together. I had wanted to find out more about possible full scholarship for the PhD program. I'm currently doing a master's program fully funded at the University of Iowa, and I'm deeply interested in counseling psychology. But concerned about the funding. I would like to reach out to you about this. Yes. Please do. Please talk to me. I'd be happy to speak with you. Is there a number I could call you with that's easier to call? Yes. So go my number, if it's, is that not lodged in the chat box?

1:18:42I wanna double check on that. Here. Let me let me post that right now in the chat box, and then you can call me. Yeah. So I put it in the chat, for you. (703) 663-1652. Give me a call. I'd be happy to speak with you. Okay. I think with that sweet. Okay. Natalia, maybe I should ask some of my question about the license process at The US. I mean it for someone who does not, I assume, have previous bachelor in psychology. Oh, okay. So, Natalia, you know, like, a bachelor's degree is requisites to get in like, you have to have a bachelor's degree to apply. Okay? So that's like a, you know, that's a as they say. You know, bachelorette degree, you know, to get into any accredited, doctoral program is gonna be, like, a prerequisite.

1:19:38So if you don't have a bachelor's degree, you'll have to do that first, you know, before moving forward. Okay. Yennefer, how would it how would be the class schedule? Can I take the classes in one or two days a week? I live in Rhode Island. No. No. No. No. This is not a like a you know, you can take, like, classes, like, one or two days a week and then come back to Rhode Island. That's not how it works. This is a, like, a residential full time, you know, Monday through Friday coursework kinda thing. It's not you know, unless, like, you know, you're able to get, like, a, you know, jet back and forth, you know, on the weekends or something. I mean, this is really kind of the sort of thing that almost certainly would require, relocation, you know, to Virginia.

1:20:28So I hope that's helpful. You know, again, like, let me know if if you still have questions, Jennifer, about that. Okay. Good. I believe that's it, Josh. Thank you very, very much, for your help today. And for our audience, again, if anything is unclear, please get in touch with me. I'd love to talk to you. I'd love to talk to new students. I hopefully, I can clarify whatever what remains, unknown. Okay? So, Josh, thank you, and all have a great day, and I look forward to speaking with you in the coming days. Bye bye.