PsyD Webinar with alumna Emily Dowdell

0:05Welcome to the PsyD webinar tonight. My name is Bradley Cypher, and I'm the PsyD admissions advisor here at Divine Mercy University. And today, we're going to I'm gonna give you an overview of the doctoral program in clinical psychology and the Divine Mercy University. Looks like we have Emily, doctor Emily Dowdle. Welcome. Hi. Emily is a alumna of a Psy d alumna of Divine Mercy University. So we're going to, talk a little bit about her story coming into psychology and her career as a psychologist later on. So without further ado, let's get into it. Welcome to Divine Mercy University. Divine Mercy is a Catholic institution comprised of two schools dedicated to the scientific study of psycho scientific study of psychology with a Catholic Christian understanding of person, marriage, and family.

0:52Founded in '28 as the Institute of the Psychological Sciences, and In 2014, the institute launched its MS program in psychology with its focus on educating working professionals. In 2015, IPS was renamed Divine Mercy University, DMU, with the addition of the School of Counseling. Okay. So this is a image of what I just mentioned. So we are one university, Savannah Mercy, with two schools, the school counseling, which has a master's program, which is chiefly online, though it's also hybrid in the sense that our master's students come to campus toward the end of their time for clinical hours. And also the Institute of Psychological Sciences, which has the doctorates, which we're talking about today, and that is residential in Sterling, Virginia, and a master's program in psychology, which is exclusively online.

1:42Okay. Our mission is to provide students with an effective academic and educational environment that supports the integration of the psychological sciences and a Catholic Christian understanding of the person. And to prepare students to respond to their vocation as mental health professionals. As I said, we're located in Sterling, Virginia, which is a which is a suburb of Washington DC. And to our West, we have the Blue Ridge Mountains. So this is truly a wonderful area. There's something for everybody. Everyone who's interested in outdoorsy things, there's we have, camping and white water rafting and canoeing and hiking and just all all kinds of outdoorsy things. And then to the East, we have our nation's capital, which is rich with culture and artistic opportunity.

2:31So, there's really something for everybody. Emily, tell me more tell me about your experience in terms of the location here, while you're at Divine Mercy. What sorts of things did you do did you enjoy or do did you do while you're a student here? So when I was a student, it was actually right before the relocation. So they moved the year after I graduated, but we were located in the general vicinity. So in, Downtown Arlington in Crystal City. But being so close to DC, but also so close to rural Virginia, it was really wonderful. So one of the things that I really enjoyed was I actually took a camping trip, out in the Shenandoah Valley, and that was fantastic. My husband is also a fan of brewing, and so we got to go to a lot of different breweries, and also visited, some other parts of Virginia, that were really just wonderful.

3:21I'm just thinking of some of the random places, like, and it's been a while, so I'm trying to remember the names of some of the cities. But but, yeah, we we went to some of those parts, kind of in the Shenandoah, area and really enjoyed that. But also being close to DC, we went into the city quite a bit, which was a lot of fun, and there were a lot of different activities for young adults. We got to join, like, the Catholic Young Professional Association, which was really wonderful. There's just a lot of, rich community, in the city itself. So we definitely got to enjoy that as well. Wonderful. Thank you for sharing that. Okay. So this is a bit about our accreditation. So we are institutionally accredited by SACS, the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools.

4:02And SACS is recognized as an accrediting agency by the Department of Education. And Divine Mercy has voluntarily participated in the accrediting process and met or exceeded all standards in thorough evaluation. We're also approved to operate by SHEV, the State Council of Higher Education in Virginia. And the Saudi program has been recognized since 2006 as a national registered designation program by the Association of State and Provisional Psychology Boards. And perhaps most notably of all, the Saudi program has been accredited by the APA, the American Psychological Association, since 2016. And Duane Murphy has been approved to participate in the National Council for State Authorization Reciprocity Agreement.

4:39So there you have it. We're thoroughly and utterly accredited at virtually every level. Clinical psychology is a psychological specialty that provides continuing and comprehensive mental and behavioral health care for individuals and families, consultation to agencies and communities, training, education, and supervision, and research based practice. Okay. So this is a bit about the nature and structure of our program. So it is a hundred and twenty two hours in total, which includes a master of science in passing on route to the doctorate. So after the first two years or 60 credits, you will have earned a master's in psychology. And then three years later, you will have the doctorate. So that's a total of five, I'll told.

5:24And then this prepares ultimately for the for licensure as clinical psychologist because the doctorate is required for, to be a psychologist, here in The United States. Alright. So in year one, you'll be you'll begin coursework. Also, typically, you'll start or at least pick a dissertation topic, and, if not start researching it as well and finding a faculty supervisor. And year two coursework continues, though you will start to see clients here on our on campus clinic. And then in year three, coursework will continue, though you'll have less of it because you'll be seeing more pay more clients. And the same is true with year four. So more you'll have courses, but you'll have less of it, and you'll see, lots of clients.

6:09So in that sense, it's it's somewhat resembling medical school the medical model in the sense that, front front loaded the classes, heavy academics, and then it diminishes toward the end. You you have a lot more, time with your, patients or clients. And then in year five, you have the predoctoral internship, which is off campus altogether. And, typically, our students will defend their dissertations in their fifth year, though some do it sooner than that, some do it later than that. But usually in years four through six, people tend to finish their dissertations. And there's no classes in year five. So you're, again, totally off campus. And our students have had fantastic placements, in APA accredited, internship sites.

6:55So these are just a few among many. So Saint Elizabeth's Hospital in Washington, the psychiatric hospital of Washington, the Virginia Medical Center. And so but but these are just a few. There are many others that really depends on your psychological interest, your area, and where you get placed. In some ways, it it resembles residency, in in the medical model. You do get paid for this year, and the salary ranges depending on where you get placed. And, also, you know, the the better paying ones tend to be military. Anyway so, Emily, would you say it's an accurate depiction if I left out anything significant? No. I think that's very accurate. Yeah. Okay. Good. I think the only thing I might add is, you know, in the fifth year, it can be pretty competitive getting, an internship, and and there's a match system, which is similar to the residency program.

7:47So when you apply, you don't necessarily know where you're going to end up, and it helps to have a little bit of flexibility in terms of, comfort level with different geographic locations. So as you apply, you kinda wanna look, you know, in places where you might wanna end up too because it's a great networking opportunity when you start in your internship year. But it doesn't necessarily have to be that way. That's one way to approach it. But, yeah, it's a little bit tricky because you you kind of go for all these different interviews and you're not sure where you're gonna end up landing, and you rank them based on your preference. And then they all rank you, and then there's a match system in the end that tells you whether where you'll end up.

8:26Yeah. So how many, programs is it just an average do students apply to in that year? I think it really varies. I mean, some people can apply to up to, like, 15 different sites. I know for myself, I went a little bit lower. I applied to six different sites. So and I ended up getting four different interviews. And then when I ranked, I ranked three out of the four. And then I placed at my top choice, which was great. So Good. But it really varies. And, you also a good a good strategy for down the road is to look at, how many people are actually applying to the site that you're interested in, because that can give you a sense of how competitive it might be. Interesting. Thank you. So is society right for you?

9:13Do you want to help people flourish? Are you interested in the science behind human behavior? Do you want to become an instrument of healing to the psychological sciences? Are you interested in performing psychological tests and assessments to diagnose your clients and create a treatment plan? Are you looking to start a career as a licensed mental health professional and specifically as a clinical psychologist? So these are some things to consider moving forward with your discernment. Alright. These are the major areas of competency that we aim to achieve in the doctoral program. Foundations in psychological science in research, integrity and practice, assessment and diagnosis, therapeutic intervention, professional roles, and clinical practice from a Catholic and interpretive perspective.

9:52Now these first five are fairly common in a lot of study programs, but we have a sixth. That is our Catholic identity that, sort of, you might say, orders, the the science of psychology to really man's final end, which is god. So, that's sort of I'm going to go through all of these in turn, just to sort of explain what exactly we mean by them. Alright. So first, foundation of psychological science and research. Graduates will obtain foundational psychological science knowledge of biological, cognitive, effective, social, and developmental aspects of the human person, as well as a history and systems of psychology, psychological measurement, research design, and statistical method. Graduates have the skills necessary to conduct their own psychological research.

10:39Two, integrity and practice. Graduates will be knowledgeable in the areas of diversity and ethics and display critical thinking, self aware and reflective practice, and self care. Graduates will demonstrate responsiveness, supervision, collegiality, and professional comportment and professional practice. Three, assessment and diagnosis. Graduates be able to conduct clinical interviewing, inter perform intake evaluation, demonstrate knowledge in the administration, scoring, and interpretation of psychological assessment, integrate multiple sources of test data and clinical interview information into a written report, diagnose and develop a treatment plan. Four, therapeutic intervention. Graduates will be able to demonstrate, excuse me, case conceptualization, treatment planning, building and maintaining a therapeutic relationship, psychotherapy skills, crisis management of urgent and special circumstances, and discharge planning.

11:32Professional roles. Five. Graduates will be able to function in a variety of required roles of professional psychologists to include consultant, educator, supervisor, practice manager, and program evaluator. They'll be able to conduct be able to work collaboratively within the disciplinary teams and our clients. Six, clinical practice from a Catholic and interpretive perspective. Kratos has demonstrated developed a Catholic understanding of human flourishing in individual person, marriage, and family life and be able to integrate this with the psychological sciences and clinical practice. Okay. These are some sample employment tracks. It's totally not exhaustive. There are many other different air avenues you could go within clinical psychology, but these are just a few first and most obviously being licensed clinical psychologist, but also things like a clinic director, a psychiatric technician, a psychiatric crisis unit interviewer, community mental health social worker, a drug abuse social worker, a drug and alcohol specialist, a certified alcohol or drug counselor, therapist, professional psychological resource adviser, psychological behavioral therapist, health project director, or group home director.

12:36So as you can see, this list, though incomplete is there's quite a lot of things you can do. Is there something you would say, Emily, that, is is sort of obviously missing from this list that you might wanna add? I mean, I think no. I mean, the psychiatric crisis unit interviewer is rather specific. I mean, I guess I would kind of broaden that a little bit and say, like, a psychologist in a psychiatric hospital setting, but it's just and also, I might add, like, a psychological evaluator, or a forensic psychologist. I didn't see the Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Also neuropsychology too. If you have an interest in that specific subfield, although that does require, additional training through the PsyD.

13:24Sure. I'm looking at it too, like, the drug abuse social worker and, community mental health social worker. Like, the I feel like those might be more of, like, a master's level education instead of the PsyD. Sure. Okay. Would you where on the whole, would you say is there an area or an area of practice that most of our graduates end up, or is it too varied to even make that kind of a generalization? Yeah. I don't know. I think it varies quite a bit, but I would think that a lot of our, graduates end up in private practice or in community, outpatient centers in the position of either opening your own practices or working in group practices, providing outpatient therapy. Yeah. Good. Alright. These are some student testimonials, alumni that have commented about their experience here.

14:18So James Wallovich has said, in our clinical psychology program, the training is focused on healing the whole person. Kristen Long, I was drawn to the study program and desire to serve others in a more profound way than my previous positions offered. Timothy White, the school is not afraid to teach you what it means to be human at every level, psychologically, philosophically, theologically, and that's why I like it. And Kirsten Curtis, I'm so thankful for DMU. The faculty members are very supportive and receive lots of hands on clinical experience. Okay. So this next slide is a testimonial video by one of our PsyD students who has done work on PTSD himself coming having come from a military family.

15:05Hi. My name is William Johnston, and I'm a PsyD student at Divine Mercy University, currently approaching the end of my third year in the program. Military service runs in my family, and, and so both my grandparents served. My parents both served. This door, the PsyD program at Divine Mercy University, opened the opportunity for me to continue to get back to conduct research and hopefully implement a more robust program to treat PTSD as it relates to combat veterans. DMU has certainly provided the integration that I saw in terms of my formation, both the philosophy and theology core, in addition to the psychology curriculum, has provided me growth in terms of my faith, and my role as a husband and father, and, of course, a psychological clinician.

16:03So in essence, the Catholic Christian meta model of the human person is is why I'm here, both for my own sake as well as the sake of my future clients. Okay. We have another testimonial. This one from an alumna. I would say that being a student at DYM University or TMU is one of the best thing that happens to me. I really appreciate a great support from faculty members and also classmates. I have gained a great deal of knowledge in all aspects of clinical practice, research, and also professional development. DMU not only provides students with strong academic skills, but also prepares them for a career in psychology. I personally benefit from mentorship with academic advisor and clinical supervisors.

17:09As a person, what I most appreciate from DMU is that its mission helped broaden my perspectives in understanding a human person through the lens of Catholicism. Catholic principle, especially in hope, love, and faith are very valuable and certainly helped me become a better clinician. Okay. This is a brief, overview of our faculty. These are just a few professors. We have many, many more. But I would say in general, our program, in addition to being Catholic, is also a generalist program in psychology. So, you could get into a doctoral program where it specializes in some certain areas within psychology, forensics, things like this. But we really are generalist nature. So we have faculty that have expertise in virtually every air every major area within psychology, abnormal, personality, social, developmental, and child.

18:13And, also, we will get exposed to virtually all of the, psychotherapy schools. So CBT, IFS, psychodynamic, existential, humanistic. And so, really, the we would say that the advantage there is that, you know, you can come in sort of with the areas that you sort of are most interested in, but being be open to exposure to new areas within psychology, that maybe you didn't think they would like as much as you ended up doing. So with with at any rate, these are sort of just a few of our professors. So doctor Lisa Kuklicki is our program director. She specializes in adolescents, adult, and couples therapy. To her right, doctor Diane Graves is a child and developmental psychologist. And to her right, doctor Anna Piccarora specializes in addiction and trauma.

19:01These three gentlemen at the bottom were the founding faculty members of Divine Mercy University, doctors Scrofani, Nordling, and Bits. Scrofani specializing in cognitive behavioral therapy and group therapy, Nordling in child marriage and family, and doctor Vitz's work really kinda sits at the nexus between Christian theology and modern psychology. He has, to my mind, just a fascinating story, with his conversion to Catholicism. And, really, I mean, you might say the genesis of the university kind of originated there. Anyway, let's move forward. Alright. So this is about bit about licensing. Alright. A license to practice so is is licensing required? A license to practice is required by each state and their jurisdiction or individuals might practice as a counselor.

19:47When licensing process begins after the student con completes the practicum and inter internship and officially graduates from DMU. States can often do have additional and differing requirements. Students are responsible for checking state requirements where they plan to work and adhere them, and these typically include national and state exams. DMU will provide a general information related to licensure during the student experience. So who initiates licensing? Licensing is a student's run process. It's important students begin research licensing requirements in the state he or she intends to work in as early in the program as possible. Will students be fully licensed after graduation? No.

20:23Graduates must work about a year in a supervised clinical environment in addition to other state requirements to be licensed. Your graduate may be required to obtain a provisional license for this year period. Be sure to check your state for particular requirements. So, Emily, would you say that this, accurately depicts sort of what you went through with licensure? Was it about a year in your case? Yep. Yep. It was about a year. And, sometimes some states require it, like, that postdoctoral year. So you finish your internship, you graduate, and then you work for one more year. Some states don't require that. So it's really important to research and look at the state boards and what they require, especially because certain states stipulate certain hours.

21:01So some states, have more hours than others. Florida is notorious for requiring more hours than the majority of the states. But you wanna make sure you really look into the state the states where you might wanna practice or you would potentially consider practicing because you wanna make sure when you're getting your hours for clinical training that you get enough, to satisfy the licensing requirements. Where would you say where does Virginia lie in that continuum? Is this sort of average in terms of hours? I think so. I mean, most of them are pretty similar. It's just Florida is kind of an outlier that has quite a bit more than the rest. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know that. Okay. This is, a little bit about what I would describe as a distinction between a material investment and something more spiritual like education.

21:50And with that, I mean this. So suppose you buy a car, right, even a really nice car, say, the car will depreciate in value shortly after you buy it within a year or so or three. A lot of times, it's worth maybe half as much as it was when you actually bought it. But when you invest in in yourself, in your mind, in really your soul, you're sort of expanding, you know, the the knowledge that's within you. And you're really expanding the value that you're able to offer other people. And specifically, in this case, with, in clinical psychology, the expertise, that you're able to offer your clients and to community and really the psychological profession at large, it it grows with time. It it it does just the this set of depreciating, it appreciates.

22:40So I think this is a a really helpful thing for a lot of people so you can to kinda keep in mind, is to truly play the long game with this because it's, you know, it's it's a significant investment in time and in money. But really it's something that pays itself pays pays itself forward, over the decade hopefully decades of your career. Just to add, I would say that the resources and education that you receive through PsyD program, you'll continue to use. I mean, I find myself digging through my folders and files from things that I learned when I was in the PsyD program, and, you know, I've been outside of the PsyD program now for three years. But, you know, I'm still going back to some of those resources and some of those courses, for reference and to just kinda get a deeper sense of what I learned at that time.

23:29Makes sense. Thank you. Okay. This is the investment itself. So at a thousand 95 per credit for a 122 credits, it's a 100 and 33 of five 90 all told. That does not include fees or indirect expenses. There are a number of options by which people, students have paid for their education. So things like different loans and grants offered by the government. Once you submit your application, our financial aid office will get in touch with you to start walking you through the process of how to best, pay for the investment. We offer a lots of different ways to deframe the cost. For instance, we offer assistantships on campus or work study programs. We have a number of student workers here on campus, say, in the admissions department or others in business office.

24:15Students in these programs typically work between ten and twenty hours a week at the very most. And this is a great way to, make money, defray costs, and also do work that's not super difficult. This ID is a demanding program, but this job is isn't. And so it it fits in well with your schedule. So here's just here's some other financing pro options. The financial aid office will explain this in a lot more detail, but I want to highlight one in particular, namely the diocese and investment. So what that what that means is it's an it's an MOU that, can be arranged with the diocese to pay for, usually, about 15% of the total cost of the tuition provided that the students willing to return to, you know, said diocese after graduation and do certain work for the diocese, whether that be testing, conducting test psychological testing for, say, for seminarians or working for Catholic charities.

25:10It it really kind of depends. These are some other, a number of other scholarship opportunities, that we offer our students. So once admitted, I highly recommend, you peruse this and figure out which one of these, applies to you. Now granted, not all of them is likely to apply to everybody. However, this is a great way to kind of knock off some of the cost of the program. In addition, I would be remiss if I did not mention that most most of our students do not pay this full sticker price. All most of most students get about 25% off in financial aid. So that's another another sort of thing to keep in mind in terms of paying for it. Alright. Oh, and our our top merit scholarship, is awarded to students typically between two and six students per year, though it depends on the year, are given 50% off scholarship.

26:06And and and and sometimes it's it's, less than that depending on if they're you're a runner-up. Say, I mean, you might get awarded, 25% off of tuition. And these are this is largely based on academic merit, things like, your GPA and GRE and things like this. Okay. This is a bit about entrance requirements. So we require a baccalaureate degree from a regionally accredited school. We do prefer that that degree have been in psychology, though many of our, students do not have psychology backgrounds. Yeah. There you have it. And so that's not a problem at all. We for those students, however, we do require a online classroom in the first year. It's really not a very difficult thing. I mean, it's really an undergraduate class in psychology, spread over a over two semesters in the first year.

26:59So it's it's definitely, manageable, with the other courses that you'll be taking with your the other students in your cohort. And then a GPA of at least three on four o scale. Now if you have just less than that, talk to me, and we can we might be able to work something out. You know, so if you if you have a borderline GPA, please, you know, don't don't immediately discount yourself. Something, could probably be arranged. Alright. This is a rundown of the admissions process. So the first thing to do, if you, you know, you've gone you've gone through this with us, you've seen, sort of, like, the the scope and trajectory of the program, and you like what you see, and you and you wanna move forward, I recommend applying.

27:45The first thing you must do, though, is complete the online app, and that's easy to do. You could do it today, if you wanted to. It could take twenty to thirty minutes. And then once that is submitted, the financial aid office, like I mentioned, will get in touch with you. We do maintain the communication. Then once all documents are submitted and by that, I mean, the other parts of the application, which actually, I'll talk about that right now. So in part one, this is the one that you can do completely online. It's really easy to do. And then the sort of subsequent elements of the application, things like like the essays and the resume or the recommendations, these can all come later. So it's important to kinda keep the order in mind.

28:26So the first thing is reply online and then attend to the other things. So for the recommendations, two of these recommendations must be academic in nature. So that means that they basically need to be professors. We do certainly if you have three professors, that could recommend you for this program, that's fantastic. I know that our program our program director, doctor Korolecki, really likes academic recommendations, being an academic herself. That those are always really good and strong. And then also but if you don't have three academic if you have one who's like a work supervisor, that's totally good. Speaking to things like, you know, your work ethic or your professionalism and whatever work you happen to be engaged in.

29:12Now and then we also require official transcripts from post secondary school. So if you've gone to college well, college, and then if you've gone to graduate school, please send that as well. Also, GRE scores. The thing about the GRE, I've discovered after talking with a lot of prospective students is this tends to scare a lot of people away. But please do not be do not let the GRE, get in the way of fulfilling your dream of being of being a clinical psychologist. It's an element of our application, and our faculty does consider it. But it's a smaller one and sort of, like, you might say, a constellation of other elements that are more important in the application. Things like your interview, which we're gonna get to in a minute, but also your essays, your recommendations, what people say about you are more important, you know, in your your academic transcripts, things like this.

30:05The GRE, I I it's not something that that for at least for our purposes, you know, killing yourself with studying. I mean, we don't have a cutoff score, that we're looking for such that if you don't attain a certain score, you're excluded from mission. That's not the way it works here. So it's just something that I I recommend. Maybe, look at a practice test or two or three to kind of familiarize yourself with the format, but then just sort of, bite the bullet and take it because, chances are you might do better than you think. The other thing that we should talk about are interview dates. So we have three interview dates per year. November 11 has passed, so the next one is January 27. Please disregard this date.

30:50We can this has passed, but we can certainly still take, applications. And then the next interview will be in March. But for people who are watching this now, this is a good one to get into. Especially if you're a student who has a high GPA and you're competitive for the merit scholarship, we this is the last interview, that our faculty will consider people for our top merit scholarship. So this is a, you know, very good incentive if you if that's you. So time is of the essence. Okay. What happened I talked about? Okay. Yeah. So once all the documents are received so by that, I mean, you've completed the online app. You've got the essay, the essays in, the resume, the recommendations, the transcript, and the GRU.

31:42Once that's all collected, the your file will be reviewed by the dean. And if you're competitive, you'll be invited for a interview, and that's next one, like I said, was is in January 27. And then you'll hear about an admission decision usually within a few weeks thereafter. And then the program will begin in August '23. Okay. This is a bit about this information about international students. So for international applicants who's at black, large groups or in an institution outside The US, please note this. Applicants holding degrees from outside The US must submit any international transcripts in ACES for approved evaluation service such as WES or a course by course evaluation. Applicants holding degrees from outside The United States must demonstrate post secondary education that is in a minimum equivalent to US US bachelor's degree.

32:34And if the credential is not English, the credential must be translated into English. And cost of this evaluation is your own, and applicants whose primary language is not English may need to take the TOEFL or IELTS. So this one, can be another stumbling block for a lot of students. If you're an international student, say, whose, languages was not English and yet you have you've done American college or American graduate school or something, you'll still be required to take the total. It's just sort of a policy that we have. So please bear that in mind. It's, you know, if you if you have an American baccalaureate degree, this should be not a problem. So, okay, that's all I have for my part.

33:18At this point, I like to turn it over turn it over somewhat to Emily. And, Emily, I'd like to ask you tell us a little about your story in terms of you, become first becoming interested in psychology in the first place, and why you became attracted to DMU, and what caused you to apply to DMU. So let's start there. Tell me about your your the backstory of your interest in psychology. Yeah. So, I actually I started by getting my undergraduate degree at Franciscan University, because I was born and raised Catholic and very much degree at Franciscan University, because I was born and raised Catholic and very much interested in theology. And at Franciscan, I decided to study multimedia communications, because I had an interest in graphic design, art, photography, and I wanted to go in that direction.

34:00So when I graduated, I went back home, but unfortunately, it was during the recession. And so it was really hard to find a job in 2009. And so I kind of did a lot of different things. I was walking dogs. I was working at coffee shops while I built my own photography business, and I was also doing freelance graphic design. And I built a photography business, and it went really well. And right when it was kind of peaking with, like, 25 weddings a year, which is a pretty good number, if you think about it in terms of weekends, you know. It I was really starting to be successful and people were calling and interested. I had a change of heart. I decided I wanted to choose a psychologist. It kind of came a little bit out of nowhere in terms of, I met a DJ at a wedding that I was photographing who was a DJ and also a counselor.

34:48And he talked about, counseling veterans in a PTSD. We're doing work with PTSD with veterans, in a I think he worked for the VA. And he just talked about how, you know, going from that experience to the weddings on the weekends, he really got exposed to, like, the full breadth of human experience. And I was very intrigued by that. Right? Because when you're a wedding photographer, you're seeing people mostly on their best day. Right? Like you're seeing sometimes daily drama comes up. But for the most part, you know, people kinda tuck that away and just wanna celebrate. And, you know, I've I've had some experiences in my own life and in my family of people suffering with mental illness and trauma.

35:26And it occurred to me that that was something that I might be able to do. I've always kind of had, an empathic ability and a sense of where people are and wanting to meet them where they are. And I realized that I could actually use that, skill that I already had sort of developed, to help other people kind of navigate their difficulties. So I was interested, but I had never studied even a single course in psychology. I was like, how does one go from a bachelor's degree in communications to becoming a psychologist? And so I started looking. And then I stumbled across Doctor. Greg Botaro's blog. And this was kind of at the early stages of his kind of career, which is blown up certainly in the Catholic Psych Institute.

36:09But it was very early in his his day. So he had a few blog posts up, but one of them that he had put was, just about the program that he went to and how it integrated, you know, John Paul two and theology of the body and Catholic teaching and the philosophy. And I was like, wait a minute, all this stuff I studied at Franciscan because I did get a minor in theology and I took a bunch of philosophy classes. And I was always intrigued by the philosophy of the human person and I really kind of in college really fell in love with, John Paul II, some of his works and took some classes marital theology and, felt that all of that stuff was really powerful and awesome, but had no idea what to do with it.

36:46And then here came this opportunity to integrate that with psychology, at IPS. And at the time, it was IPS, the Institute for Psychological Sciences when I started. So I, I decided, since I was kinda looking for something different and looking for a way to work with people, in a different way than I was already, that I would give it a shot. So I applied, and I really wasn't expecting to get called in for an interview because I had no background. Wow. You know? I mean, I I thought my grades from graduate school were decent, but that was, you know, five years prior. So I was like, is this even relevant? I wasn't sure how it was gonna go, and I I got called in for an interview, and I was really just like, oh, this is happening.

37:27This is real. So I went to Crystal City and, to the campus that was just in, like, an office building in Arlington, and I was like, what is this place? And I remember in my interview, I met doctor Scrofani. He was one of the people that interviewed me. And my favorite interview question I'm not gonna give it too far away just in case he still uses it, but, he asked about, I'll say side side a side thing. He asked about interests in terms of, characters. And I thought the integration there of bringing in sort of story and narrative, into even just an interview question was really fascinating, because I've always been interested. I studied film studies as well and I've always loved movies, and books, and stories.

38:14So it was really exciting to even think about that as something that could be part of the process. So I just I was really intrigued by doctor Scruffani and really excited when I found out that I was accepted, and so my life kinda changed dramatically when I moved to Arlington the following year. Wow. Thank you. That's fantastic. What a great story. So once you came to DMU and then you graduated and went on, what kind of work have you become involved in since then? Yeah. So through my internship, I, I was actually in the first class that, had the internship start in the second year. So I felt like that was a big change and shift because the school was still kind of very much developing their process.

38:57And so I got a lot of different experiences through my internship years, basically the not the internship years, but the practicum years. And so it there was a lot to choose from, and I decided I really wanted to get into assessment, which is something that I really enjoy, providing the psychological testing. But also I enjoyed working in hospital settings. So I decided to pursue that a little bit further, and I got, pre pre internship placement and externship with the Psychiatric Institute of Washington, and I really flourished in my training there. I had a wonderful supervisor, doctor Marshall Woods, who was very invested in the Rorschach, which also Doctor. Kulicki taught, and that was a great class.

39:41And I just I fell in love with assessment and wanted to pursue that further. And I liked the hospital work, and I wanted to see the difference between private hospital and state hospitals. So I applied to a lot of state hospitals for my internship year and that brought me to Maine in their state psychiatric hospital. So I did work there with both forensic and civilly committed people, and it was a more intense, setting in terms of just what people were struggling with, but it certainly gave me a well rounded understanding of where mental illness can can manifest and how it can manifest. And since then, I've actually shifted over to more private practice. So I worked at Catholic Psych Institute after working at Riverview Psychiatric.

40:22So I was at Riverview for my internship and then my postdoctoral year. Actually thought I was gonna stay there because I really liked being in Maine, and I'm originally from New England, so it felt like home. And I connected well, with the professionals at the hospital, and I really liked being on a team, working with all the different disciplines and, like, the hospital setting. But then an opportunity came up to actually work with doctor Bittaro, and I was very excited about that. So I jumped at it because it also gave me a chance to move back to Rhode Island where I was originally from. And so I worked there, but it was kinda during the pandemic, so I did a lot of remote work while I was there.

40:59And, really got a chance to kind of dig deeper into the things that I was trained in at IPS because they have a very focused, they're pretty focused on interpersonal process theory. So we sort of dug deeper into that and some of the other resources that doctor Scorfani had, taught in his courses. And, so I stayed with them for two years, and then another opportunity, arose to work at Rua Woods in Cincinnati, and that's where I am now. Wow. Fantastic. Thank you for sharing that. So I you mentioned the question that doctor Scrofani asked you in the interview about narrative. And then you also mentioned, interpersonal process theory, you know, and sort of the, you know, IPS or DMU sort of focus on that.

41:43Yeah. Can you maybe would you say that it's the case of that was something that was sort of something of an intellectual crucible for you in terms of the way in which the I an idea or ideas that you encountered at DMU, sort of changed the trajectory of your professional career in the way that you think about, psychotherapy or just the the role of a psychologist. Is it more cohesive that or is it more than that? Yeah. I mean, I think the relational approach, is very much at the heart of what IPS does. And there are a lot of different perspectives on psychotherapy. You know, people come at it from thoughts or they come at it from feelings or behavior. You know, you have CBT, EFT, like, all these different abbreviations.

42:24The t's. Yeah. All all the t's. But I think that when you realize that the relationship is gonna be the foundation of any of those methods and you can use the relationship, as the vehicle for change, then that really kind of changes the way that you approach the process, and how you work with people. Okay. So it wasn't, like, one particular thinker, like, you know, or anything like that. It was really sort of the the foundation in the relationship was super important. And I kinda consider myself a little bit eclectic, because I kinda take a lot of different tools. I really like to tailor what I'm doing to the person in front of me and meet the person that I'm working with. So if, you know, the interpersonal process model works for that person, then, yeah, let's do it.

43:09But if they need something a little bit more concrete or more directive, then I'm gonna pull out tools from CBT or EFT or, you know, ACT and drop all the acronyms. No. I do use I do use a lot of DBT skills for people too for, like, emotion regulation and things like that. But, yeah, just, like, kind of taking the different pieces that fit and apply in given situations. But what I'm think I've come to be most passionate about, and I'm still growing and learning tremendously, in is, assessment for religious and seminarians. Mhmm. So that's been a big focus, the last probably three years of my training. And then I've been trying to really do a lot of extra sort of CEs and participate. So I'm part of this, Catholic Psychotherapy Association, and they have, like, a seminary assessment, special interest group, where there's monthly lunches.

44:01And you just get to kinda network with the professionals there, and it's really valuable. Excellent. What would you say was the most rewarding or just sort of, like, the best thing about DMU, in your in your experience? The professors and the community. So I know that's kinda cheating because I did two things. That's fine. No. I, like, I I look back and I just I have so many people that I keep in touch with or that I at least think of often. You know, life can be a little bit busy. I've actually got three kids I've had since being in the program, so it gets a little busy. But, but it's amazing, just like the quality of relationships that you build when you're so concentrated on sort of the same direction.

44:48Right? Like, you're you're in this cohort and you're all together, you know, and you start to sort of branch off a little bit when you get into your fourth and fifth year. But you still maintain a connection, even if it's not continuous or, like, you're continuously reaching out to the people. You still can look back on those relationships, and there's there's something solid there that you could come back to. Yeah. And I still I feel the same way about the professors as well. You know, I I think of a lot of them often, and they they gifted a lot of themselves in their courses, and I'm grateful for that. Totally. So so so so to sort of say the counter of that, what would you say what in, you know, in your memory was the most difficult or the most challenging part about your time in the doctoral program?

45:33The changes? I was at a time when when things were, fluctuating a little bit for the university. I mean, I was there when it was IPS, and then it was the transition to DMU. And they were kind of restructuring things and going through APA accreditation. So Wow. There was a lot happening while I was there. That's true. And, so that was struck like, it it definitely made it a little bit harder at times. But I like to think that I'm a bit flexible, so I was able to kinda roll with it for the most part. But sometimes that was a bit disorienting. Okay. So what did you write your dissertation on? So I looked at the boundary between psychological and spiritual. So I interviewed a psychiatrist, who had done basically supported clergy in evaluating people who could be psychotic or have psychotic processes at play rather than necessarily having a spiritual issue, and sort of looking at the overlapping features, that can get confused, and then wrote about the roles.

46:34So if you were a mental health professional and you were encountering something at that border and wondering, is this a spiritual issue or psychological issue, would you be qualified to make that distinction, and what would it look like to make that distinction? That sounds absolutely fascinating. I I wanna ask you more questions about that, but I don't know if this is the right time. Okay. So in your opinion, what would you say, would be some of the best reasons to apply for and persevere in the doctoral program? And and what would be maybe some of the worst reasons to become a psychologist? I'm a nerd, so I like to get into the weeds and research things. So one of the reasons that I ended up applying to the PsyD was because I wanted to do a dissertation.

47:25But I think the dissertation could be the answer to both questions depending on who you are. It's a it's a challenge, and if you pick a topic that you're really devoted to it can be really rewarding and enriching, and it can also be, a bit of a slog and add a lot of, mental exhaustion to the process. Interesting. Okay. What would you say okay. So you mentioned Serfani and your your initial interview. What and you talked about sort of, like, the profess professors in general as having them some of your most memorable, parts of the program. But, could you speak a little bit about, individual people that really mentored you in a way that was super helpful for you moving forward into your career?

48:16Yeah. So doctor Lakhmatov, who unfortunately is no longer there, was a huge inspiration for my interest in assessment. And doctor Lee, her course on the history of thought in psychology was and still is just something that I continuously go back to and reflect on. And she was also a supervisor for me as well in the clinic. And then also doctor Buenaventura. She was the clinic director, and she was new to it in my first year. But she was very she was an incredible supervisor. Okay. Okay. This question is sort of similar to what I asked you before about, you know, good and bad reasons to, this the doctorate. Let's say, I mean, let's say somebody is sort of on the fence between counseling and clinical psychology.

49:08Is is is it really gonna come down to the scholarly dimension, in terms of whether you feel better suited for one or the other? Or is there something else about the nature of the two disciplines that Yeah. I can answer that. I know I'm interrupting your question, but I think it's the mobility, and flexibility. So when you have the doctorate, I think you can do a little bit more. Like, if you're interested in leadership roles or interested in administrative work, you have a lot more options with that regard. Like, if you wanted to direct a clinic or if you wanted to, be a training director. So there's there's some more managerial opportunities, whereas I think without the master's I'm sorry.

49:46Without the doctorate here at the master's level, you might not necessarily escalate to those levels. Okay. Is it would it be fair to say, though, that on average, clinical psychologists deal more with more severe cases of mental illness, or is that is that I don't think that would be fair to say. Okay. Yeah. I think that that, yeah, master's level and and social workers are gonna get exposed to that just as much. But I think you'll have more tools, and a bit more training, and a little bit more nuance when you do the doctoral level. Okay. Okay. So you might be more prepared for something like that. Yeah. Yeah. Might have, like, a better conceptualization of what's happening and and where to move with the person.

50:29Good. Good. What would you say is the biggest myth the big maybe biggest or a few of the biggest myths about psychology that you would just love to bust? That it's just a bunch of self help or that all we do is talk about your parents? Okay. That's that's fair. Okay. Yeah. The parent question is important, but it's not just to, like, bash parents. It's to help you integrate what your childhood meant and what your parents' parenting style, how that affected you. You know? So, yeah, jokes around that. I think I'd wanted this kinda swat away. Gotcha. Gotcha. I just wanna thank you so very much for joining us this evening, and taking the time out to to do it. And so with that, I would like to, wrap up for tonight.

51:21Again, if you have any questions about the PsyD program, don't hesitate to get in touch with me. I've left my, Calendly link in the chat, and I've also left my email address and also the application link should you want to apply. And please, again, reach out to me. I look forward to hearing from you all. Take care. Bye bye. God bless.