SDC Q&A session with alumna Kathryn Landa

0:06Welcome to this webinar. We're so happy to have all of you here. Just to get started here, Kat, just tell us, you know, just, you know, where you're from, kinda what you spend most of your time doing, just a little bit about yourself. Absolutely. So I'm actually in sunny Southern California, and I, have a full time role in a consulting company that works exclusively with nonprofit. So I've been in the nonprofit world for a long, long time, mostly in fundraising and helping, people find the funds to run a mission, and move that forward. So that's that's the bulk of my day time is is dedicated to that. And then I have a wonderful husband and two daughters. They're nine and 11. They keep us very busy as well.

0:55And, we just try to spend as much time as possible together and outdoors. Those are some of our goals at the moment. Well, that's good. You live in a beautiful place to be able to go outdoors. So this is this is the privilege of this location. Yeah. Exactly. Well so I I've got some different things I just wanna talk to you about tonight and ask you some questions about the program and things like that. As you know, for those people that are joining us, the spiritual direction certificate is a two year certificate here at Divine Mercy University. They train people, become, spiritual directors. Within the understanding that they that the university has of the human person, that Catholic Christian understanding, the human person, which is all about flourishing and and living that abundant life that Christ gave us in John ten ten.

1:46Right? So the spiritual director is really trying to help the the person that they're directing to flourish in their relationship with the board. So, Kat, what drew you to this program? Did you wanna be a spiritual director before? Did you like, how did this come about? It's it's such a great question for reflective of, yeah, how did they get here? Mhmm. I can tell you this. I didn't know why I was necessarily beginning the program, and I still leave that room for where it's eventually going to apply and take me even though I am, of course, seeing clients right now. I think, initially, I had been heavily involved in ministry in a number of ways, women's groups, children's liturgy, and different aspects of that, kind of the pastoral life of the church.

2:38And, part of me always has been fascinated with the psychological side of ourselves and how that impacts, our relationship with others and our relationship with God. And I think a number of things just converged. I I didn't know anything about spiritual direction, you know, a few years prior to applying for the program. I, became aware of it through a friend who had also completed a program, and I, you know, just got curious about the what it say. Now you're you're doing what and you're working with people in what way and started to understand the practice itself and realized that there were so many elements of the way that I was already engaging with people and moms and, students and things that were kind of in in the sphere of spiritual direction without necessarily all the tools, to be able to really offer.

3:32So that's really how cute about, and I remember in the once I knew about it as an option, as something to do, as something to pursue, it was actually right when we went into lockdown that I was like, well, I mean, you know, I have a little more time on my I just told you guys to to check this out. And, it was still the conversions of all those things, that slow discernment and that kinda hearing those that voice, and a number of other things coming together to say, yeah. I think it's time. So I will say, when I started, I didn't know. I wasn't saying, yeah. I'm I'm gonna be a spiritual director, so let me sign up for the spiritual direction program. I thought this is a wonderful set of skills that I can use for any ministry that I'm working in.

4:16And if that's where god takes me with it, so be it. Let's just find out. Let's just take the leap. So Wow. That that's a great, yeah, that's a great example. You know, because I think there are some people that really feel, like, convicted that they're called to be a spiritual director, but it's true. Like, even the program itself, we try to have that space for you guys to kinda figure out. And I was just talking to another student of the certificate today, just about she's a graduate too and just about how the store is opening up other ministries for her in the church. And and she and her husband have decided to kind of work together and and, you know, their their kids are in college maybe to come up with a nonprofit.

4:58So you do see that, I think, once you start getting involved in this Yeah. Or you've been in ministry already, but now it just takes it a step further or deeper or you see possibilities, more possibilities maybe where you can go with these skills. Yeah. It's a different dimension of probably some of the things that you all may be doing already. Absolutely. Mhmm. Interesting. And and it will affect all of the relationships that you're in. As you as you learn about these skills, about the human person, about God's design, you suddenly look, you know, look around and realize, oh, I'm doing this and that and the other, and I could probably do that differently or engage in conversation differently.

5:39And it's just it's very transformative. Yeah. Exactly. That's what I was getting that sense. So you really feel like it changed you as you went through it? Absolutely. I had no idea what what I was in for. And not and not in terms of, like, a it was a big emotional toll over the years of going, but it was just more of a recognition of this maturing and faith. And it happened at different rates. Sometimes that it felt slow and sluggish. Like, I mean, I'm reading the things and I'm doing it, but I'm not sure. And then there would be a period of what felt like more rapid growth or deepening or you know so definitely, you you take your own journey along with the work as well. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting.

6:23Right? And, I mean, we definitely when we created that program, we definitely created it so that it would it allow you to kinda grow in your relationship with the Lord, but it's always beautiful to hear just how that happens for for each person, right, and the awareness. And like you said that there were certain moments where it was stronger and then other moments maybe just kind of gathering information, and then they would all come together or something. And then in my case, it was kind of interesting. I actually did take a break. So I didn't end with the cohort that I started with. Not that I would necessarily recommend it, but we had no idea. Again, I thought you mentioned I started in COVID.

7:01We moved in the middle of of me attending, and it was a big move, big upheaval of all of our lives, schools, jobs, everything. And, so I took a break. And then I came back, and it was just, like, jumping right in, you know, with my new group and kind of moving forward and it so I guess the other thing is it's just allow that space for, you know, your whole life. It's a whole integration kind of piece, and that was totally the right thing for me to do at the at that point, and I came back in a better kind of mindset and ready to tackle that. I couldn't probably not have to continue while all of that was going on. It was, like I said, a big upheaval. So it was great how the program kind of works with you.

7:44Yeah. Exactly. Of course. Gotta be realistic. Life happens as they said. Right? So, yeah, that opportunity to take a break at sometimes, you know, just because you can't you only can do so many things at once. And the the program, even though it doesn't take a lot you know, it's like six to nine hours as you're going through the classes, but it does take a focus. Right? Yes. Exactly. And, you know, and the mindset as well. Mhmm. Prepared to receive all that it is. You know? Yeah. But definitely, as much as you're kind of putting into it, I think all of us would talk about what we're doing, you know, just from the material and the program, from the staff, but also from when you get into practice.

8:31Mhmm. You know, it takes a lot of it does take emotional and physical energy to engage with people on the sleep level, on the spiritual realm, but you receive so much. Not that that's why you do it. It's just it's I think it's God's way of taking care of you. You know? Yeah. You just get so much back. Yeah. Exactly. Sometimes I say to other students that as you minister as you minister to others, God administers to you. Right? Right. And that's Exactly. That experience. So so now that you finished the program, do you get any clarity about how you're gonna use the training? Yeah. I would say a number of things. So, you know, in course of doing the work before you you put in your hours, and so you create these relationships or gossip them together.

9:19So I see several people that I started seeing, through the program, still today, and I that's a really special part of my time and my ministry attention. And I I never imagined that that you know, I was like, am I gonna have a practice? I don't know. So it definitely I have a practice. I check out what my website. Right? So and then I end up getting referrals from other people as well. One of the places too that it's become immediately applicable is that my husband and I are involved with a retreat center near us, Catholic retreat center. And we, have been doing, the marriage retreat there for the last several years on that retreat team, giving talks, and then just making ourselves available, the couples that are coming on retreat together.

10:06And this has really enhanced all of that, of course. Right? So we had our own set of skills and challenges and things that we're able to share with them that now I can kinda go that much deeper into this this space with them. And if, you know, we kinda say I'm available, and if you wanna meet with me when we're not in session or that kind of thing. And then, that expanded into, being part of their regular spiritual direction team at the retreat house because they're having retreats all the time and they offer, you know, do you wanna sign up during these hours while you're on retreat? And he was a spiritual director. So I was immediately able to kinda slide right into that, and they were very anxious to have more lead people trained lead people to be able to come in and help with those programs because there's a huge need for this.

10:53There's a really growing desire for, this type of virtual oversight and partnership. You know, priests are overwhelmed with needs and requests of the church and parishes. So things like this don't always get attended to and or people aren't sure that's available, but there's a definite need there. Mhmm. So it's it's been come immediately applicable in a number of ways. So neat. Yeah. Exactly. And that's what that's what I find. I I think every week, I get a couple phone calls of, like, how can I find a spiritual director? Ah. I'm always I definitely think as people become more aware of what it is and how beneficial it is, that the desire is definitely there. So the need has been growing. Mhmm.

11:44So it sounds like when you got into the program, you kind of knew what spiritual direction was. You were probably starting with a spiritual director or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. I had so by that point, I had been seeing a spiritual director, for a while and, you know, that was part of it too, kind of bringing to that. It was just an interesting conversation. Hi, virtual director. I I kinda think I could do your job. Right? They they did bring it up, you know, with them and having that frustrating way to be able to do that. But yeah, they encouraged me as well and, you know, we're able to say, you know, I see this and this about the way you interact and I think that this is a good path for you and so forth.

12:24So that has been that was beneficial. So, yeah, it was at by that point, it was it was familiar, but it certainly was, until you experience all of it, you don't know. And also, there's a lot of different approaches to training in this space. Right? I was particularly attracted to what I saw in this program because of the really beautiful balance of our, that understanding of the human person balanced with everything that we believe and know to be true in our faith and how they really work together and how God's design is just so beautiful around that. You can't ignore one at the expense of the other. Mhmm. So that to me about this program was the a big attraction. Mhmm. And then I would say getting into it immediately by the first class, and then you see as you go to the second and the third, you I was always struck by how well everything built upon itself.

13:28Like, we never have learned this before that. And this part was such a crazy amazing foundation for this other piece. So the whole time, I just kept thinking, wow. What a beautiful through line. Like, it's just very appropriate, you know, as you go. And then the piece builds and then the piece builds. And you really do feel, you know, somewhat complete. You know, we were always gonna be learning and there's always so much to know and there's definitely a leap of, like, stepping out and doing it for yourself. Right? But there was definitely a feeling of being well formed, right, through the process. Exactly. I often think about, you know, when they send you home from the hospital if you've had kids.

14:10And they're like, okay. Especially the first one. They're like, alright. It's time for you guys to go. And you're like, they're sending me home with I don't know. I have no idea what I'm doing. I don't know how to do this and this. But you don't get that feeling at all. You go, okay. Like, I actually feel really prepared. I feel like I know we've we've done all the steps. We've practiced through all of the machinations of things that could come up and will come up that you it really just makes that a smooth transition into continuing to do the work. Yeah. Like, you feel confident when you're leaving that there you're not being thrown out into the wild world or that Exactly. The tools that you need.

14:48Maybe just need to keep on practicing and Yeah. And have your supervisor that helps you out. Yeah. Mhmm. So what's something that you discovered through the certificate about spiritual direction that you maybe you didn't know before? Is there anything that stands out to you? Everything. No. That would be good. I think for me, there's every time I sort of discover a system, a set of guidelines, to to solve a particular problem, it's always incredibly helpful. And you go, why didn't I never think of this before? Why didn't they see this before? So even just such a simple thing as what is listening and what are the components and what is that really like. Right? To be able I mean, I remember wearing that piece of things and practicing the skills and going, this will change the rest of my life.

15:45If I do nothing else, I take no other classes, if I don't continue in this virtual this, you know, set of warnings is that significant. Mhmm. So it's really eye opening several times throughout the course where I was like, this is such valuable information. This is so so great. So so basic things like that, like, the different steps to listening skills, that was a huge one. The other thing were some of the deeper mysteries that are related to things like the discernment of spirit and the actual systematic learning from our, you know, fathers of the faith about how to discern and that these techniques and practices have been around for hundreds of years. You know, it's like we're sitting around looking for that next book to help us figure out what God wants for us and, you know, what's the latest paperbacks that's gonna do that.

16:41But we have a precedent. We have, you know, guidelines and understandings from these amazing spiritual leaders that are completely applicable, and they are like a little handbook for how to approach a decision, how to hear God more clearly. Mhmm. So those were that was new to me for sure. Yeah. It's nice. Right? Sometimes discernment feels like a really big word. Right? But it's a really there is a lot of wisdom that we already have, and and that it is pretty practical when you read some of those things. Even though it's Saint John of the Cross or Saint Ignatius of Loyola, it's just some very practical Yeah. Moments that help. Exactly. Okay. So what was the most difficult for you as you went through the certificate?

17:31Oh, let's see. Well, for one, if you haven't been in school recently, sort of get kind of the second to the groove of how that works, you know, reading and homework and, writing and all of those pieces. So that was I think initially, I think they do a good job kind of, like, ramping you up, and you're you're comfortable with that and kinda get back into that. I think something for me is the reading. I think for me, it's some of the really dense deep theological reading. Those are the the hardest parts, but then you find the the just the fruit of them as you go into the discussion session, as you go into, the writing prompts and things like that, and you realize how much is there that you can walk away with.

18:21But, definitely, that definitely challenged me. It's been however many years since I read a textbook or, you know, and that's you know, this is a little different than that, but that was definitely the most kind of challenging piece was that. And how was it? Have you done online learning before? Or was that hard? I don't think so. I think this would have been my first time in the online learning experience. Yeah. Mhmm. Yeah. Which I actually found to be, one of the easier parts of it to engage with. And, also, I think I was concerned I think when I first found out, oh, it's not all live classes. Like, every time you meet in every session, I was like, well, how's that gonna work? I'm gonna learn anything.

19:04I gotta have to hold myself accountable. And and then I just forgot I even had that initial fear because you just get into it, and there's so much engaging going on with your team, with your professors. Yeah. There's you know, I never looked back on that. Yeah. Exactly. You don't you don't you feel like you're gonna be just kinda by yourself. Right? But through the Yeah. But you're not. I think yeah. There's a lot of Yeah. Real sense of the others going through this the with you and stuff. Yeah. And you really do form these deep familial bonds with those those folks that you you meet in the program. Like, I know places all across the country where I'm sure I can crush my head if I wanted to show up on someone's doorstep.

19:50That's great. Yeah. You share a lot as you go through the program. Yeah. Mhmm. Mhmm. In a in a deep way. Yeah. Mhmm. Well, this is another general just about the program, but what did you find to be the most helpful? You know, it's kind of a difficult question. I think for me, it was practice. It was the practical doing it. That's my probably primary way of learning. Even when I pick up the material, I say, okay. So then give me an example. Right? So I understand that in theory, I see what you're saying, but give me a for instance. So the fact that there's so much practical application, and I think it was probably part of what was most causing most anxiety for people. I mean, included or it was nerve wracking.

20:46It was like, we're gonna we're gonna pretend to go in these scenarios and we're gonna do it live. We're gonna record it. We're gonna share it and these things. But it was like, like I said earlier, it's transformational in in a lot of ways. I mean and again, another thing that we just I think all of us would say, like, yeah, you never look back. You get started and you do it. And it's so helpful. Which is so helpful to do that live practice thing and over and over. Okay. Try it this way and try it with the scenario. Now try to apply this skill. Like I said, it kind of it builds on itself. So Mhmm. To get one skill going pretty good and then we're gonna add a second skill while we're doing that same activity.

21:25It was that repetition was perfect. You know? It wasn't too much, but it was enough to really build confidence in those skills. Yeah. Well, it's definitely a very intentional design when we created it. Very intentional just like knitting it all together with a team, you know, just from the kind of from the theological side, from the human science side, and then educators that are that are used to you know, that are trained for online learning and designed for online learning. So a lot of great people in the room intentionally trying to make that all those things come together. Right? It definitely shows that I'm always talking about the. And I have a couple of folks who have started that because they were like, okay.

22:07So tell me more. What are you talking about? One of the gals was at the retreat center where I started helping. Right? She was like, so what did where did you go? And tell me again. Like, you gotta know their place. Well, that's great. It's so good to hear that. So there's a question here. Let me see what they're asking, see if we can answer it for them. Can you provide an example of spiritual direction that you provided that stands out for you? So this is Jackie that's coming from Minnesota. So, Jackie, you know, when we're talking about spiritual direction, we're talking about an actual session. You know, so every person brings different things to sessions and things like that. So it's not just giving someone spiritual advice.

22:55It's actually a a relationship that you get into someone, and you meet with them with a certain frequency, and you develop that relationship. So, really, every session is kind is different because it's really what the person brings. Right? Kinda where they are with the Lord at that time. One way to answer it is is not about a specific one, but more about what you see over time. Mhmm. And you really do see the fingerprints of God just working in the life of that person. Mhmm. And it's, you know, it's dangerous to measure in terms of, you know, linear, like, they went from here to here or things like that, but it's a lot more about unfolding. And you really do get this privilege of being in a witness to that.

23:45God just unfolding someone and deepening it in their heart. And so that, you know, it's it's incredibly fulfilling, and it's really humbling to be to be witness to that. Yeah. It is. And the gratitude that people have for that service, I'm always amazed at that. I'm a spiritual director myself, you know, just how grateful they are for that listening, that sitting with them, that deepening. Yeah. I have to tell you too that, retreat work is interesting because typically, you you do wanna be in this consistent monthly hour long Mhmm. Relationship that has the time and space to evolve. In in the retreat world, you're having maybe a half an hour of just, you know, showing up and being and you may never see this person again, you know, and the amount of things, the amount of just the weight that people are carrying and are just just desperate to let go of Mhmm.

24:53Is unbelievable, you know. And to be especially in those scenarios, I always get goosebumps. It's just it's, you know, people need someone to listen Yeah. So often. So, so often, they just need someone to listen. And it's different than, you know, obviously, this 1100% different than confession, but I think in in some cases, it feels a little bit like in the in this retreat scenario where they kinda wanna put a bunch out there, but it's just that they haven't ever felt comfortable that they can do that. Right? So in this slightly this this different kind of relationship over here and for them, it's slightly different, but we know it's very different. But Mhmm. They're just comfortable enough maybe to kind of put more quickly in this moment because they feel like it's this opportunity that they have that's kind of fleeting to be able to do that.

25:43So it's you know, like I said, it's very humbling. People really just desperately want to be listened to. Mhmm. And like you said, I think that confidential nature of the relationship, the confidentiality around it, and even among US classmates. I was thinking about that. You know, when you guys are hearing as classmates, you're always doing that, you know, that commitment to confidentiality. Right? So that you know, I think it does also help. It does create a safe space so that you can share and not not have to be worrying about, like, where this information might be going or anything like that. Right. That's right. And then I can have the opportunity to encourage them Mhmm. Now that they've kind of let something out to seek reconciliation or to, you know, whatever it else might be.

26:31It's almost like I feel a little more harmless as this person I'm never gonna see again. Yeah. Exactly. You can get something like that. And sometimes just having spoken it once, then it makes them much easier for them to say maybe to the person that they need to talk about with. So that's that's we can how you see someone's burden list. I mean, it's it's physical. It's it's visual. Even in your practice with your cohort, there's always something real there. Right? Barrels may start to meet up, but there's always something real there. And you that first time you just can see the lift in someone, you know, you're witnessing an act of God. Right? It's it's it's a beautiful, ministry to be involved in.

27:25Mhmm. Yeah. Exactly. Well, I always remind people it's a spiritual work of mercy. Right? Console console the doubtful, encourage. Like, when you look at those spiritual works of mercy, you see. There's some more questions here. So let's see. Well, so how often do people begin this program and realize that it's god is not calling them? I don't have the skills. So great question, Mary. So we have a retention rate of about eighty five percent. Right? So that means eighty five percent of the people that begin the program ended. So that gives you a sense. Of course, some people it's not that everyone drops off because they feel like they don't have the skills or they're not called toward. You know, might be financial reasons or just life situations.

28:15But, there's definitely space, and there are people that started and realized, you know, and walk away maybe after one course or two course, but hopefully walk away with a greater knowledge of themselves or even of the ministry of spiritual direction. So Lisa was asking, how often are you providing spiritual direction on weekly basis? Was it easy to set yourself up with direct days? I don't well, like, weekly basis, I only give spiritual direction on a weekly basis when I'm bringing someone through, the nineteenth annotation or spiritual exercises in daily life. And if the question is about, like, how many clients would you have per week that you're seeing on a monthly basis Yeah. One of the great things about the program is that they cover almost everything that could possibly happen.

29:07So at a certain point, they actually walk us through creating your own plan for what works for your life, what works for your ministry, what so each of us divide the plan. Like, this is how many I could see per week comfortably, these are the hours that I will probably see people. This is the balance that I wanna have with my family responsibilities. So it varies by persons. For some people, this is their this is their day job. This is their work. This is how they, sustain. So they may be seeing several people a day, each day. Usually, there's there's some some general limit they kinda shared with us about you would wanna go over this. You just emotionally couldn't carry all of that. But it's different for everyone.

29:53So for me, I have I'm seeing about four currently right now, and I have them almost all in the same week of the month. So it's an interesting I think I have three in the first week of the month and one in the second. So it kinda it's all front loaded, and then I have a few weeks where I don't have anything going on in that side of things, and then there it comes back again the next month. So that's Yeah. Exactly. What what works for me. Having my full time job and everything else, it's just great. Yeah. That sounds great. Yeah. I've got my full time job, and I probably see about six people a week with, you know, tacking them in in different places. Yeah. But, anyway, it's kinda what I dedicate myself to.

30:38So and so Lisa was saying, was it easy easy to set yourself up with directees? Yeah. So I would say yes and no. I think people are connected with directees in different ways. I was actually fortunate that someone who is in my area was referring people to me, someone in my program who was not too far from here. He was referring people to me that he was already seeing in a different way. Like, he already is engaged with them, like, in bible studies or other things. So he wasn't gonna then personally see them in this manner. So he would refer them to me, which was great. So I got a lot of contacts through that. Then and you also look to every you know, all of your what's available to you. So my parish I went to my parish, and I said, you know, here I am, and it's time for me to do my practice hours.

31:32And I've been, you know, kind of approved to that. We've moved into that phase of things. So if you can refer anybody to me, I talked to the retreat house and I said, hey. Is there anything I can come and volunteer at? I'll be happy to volunteer if you're comfortable with that. So people kind of found people, I think, in different ways. So I wouldn't say it was too difficult, but you do have to kinda create a plan. Like, where will I find these different people? And then there's some people in our program or in my cohort that were already seeing people, and they just didn't have this particular formal training. So some of those just moved right into their move it, you know, now applying all these particular skills.

32:09So number of different ways. Yeah. That's true. So another person's asking just about, like, paying for it. Like, pay is there a way to approach maybe your parish or your diocese to see if that would help out? Yeah. I mean, it's always worth asking, a 100%. In my case, I didn't I didn't do that. I probably maybe should have, could have done that because but I was so unsure of, like, you know, how am I gonna do this? So I thought, you know what? I will start. I can pay for the first class, and then we'll see what happens. And then, you know, it sort of just continued on. But I do think, especially if you will be able to provide that to that community Mhmm. Then it's it's worth saying, you know, is there is there anything available to help me with this?

32:56As you know, I'm gonna be here and practicing and and adding you know, essentially extending your staff and things like that. So it's worth asking. I would say that. Yeah. I know at my parish, my parish you know, we're right near the university. Right? And so my parish priest says to help me. Yep. I've told people if they wanna study this, I will pay for it for them because we need the directors. You know? Exactly. That was gonna say the other model is the generous benefactor who cares about this. Right? So there might be someone in your parish who would be willing to to basically sponsor you to go through the program because they they have the means and they know how critical it is for moving forward.

33:37So I know it's uncomfortable for everyone, but you, you know, you don't get if you don't ask kind of thing. So Yeah. Exactly. Definitely worth exploring. There are enough people that really care deeply about making making this happen. Mhmm. So true. And we do have on our website, although it's not like we get tons of money there, but we do have a thing where like, a pop up that allows people if they're looking into the program or, you know, they're just looking at it to give. We have the s SDC grant fund. So that allows people to give money to the program. And then what we do is try to distribute to that to people that might come to us and have a need, to want to study the program but not have the money to do it.

34:22As I said, it's not like we get tons of money there. So, but but it's, you know, the more that people know that they can do that, that's a that's a way, though, so to get more spiritual directors out there. Well, I wanna go on to some of the the the different parts of the program, but I did wanna there's one more question. There and the person's like, did you ever get you know, do you ever has have to ask for help? Because maybe there you feel scrupulous about something or you don't feel confident about the direction you're giving. Yeah. Well, first of all, I'm asking for help in every single question. I'm like, holy spirit. Come here and, you know, you do it. It's your word. You know, take me out of the picture because I don't wanna overly emphasize something that's just on my mind or you know?

35:12Mhmm. So, again, the program is so good at preparing you for so many potential outcomes or things that might come up. So, yes, of course, I ask for help. So, you know, as part of the practice, can we also be in what we call supervision, where you can take, confidential summary of of something that you're experiencing with someone to those who are more experienced than you. And say, you know, here's what I'm working with. This is it's just kind of person around this age and they're going through x y z. Does anyone have any good feedback from you on that? So I think prayer is one of the first place I ask for help, but also, yes, I'm happy to go to supervisor, to get an advice and and guidance.

35:56And then the third piece too is that we do a lot of preparation in the final course where you cover all kinds of scenarios for referring people out for more specific and other kinds of help, where it's an issue beyond what a spiritual director can really work through and influence. Mhmm. And so you feel really pretty capable of, like, when to discern, okay, this is something that will need to get referred and here's how you would try to approach that with that person. Mhmm. Yeah. But there is but there is a lot of faith. There is a lot of I found another part of one of the questions of just, like, it's such a responsibility that you're holding. Like, how do you deal with that? Mhmm. And you really learn throughout.

36:40It's a lot of letting go. Right? If this is something God calls you to and you have the skill, you you kinda have to get out of the way and let him do it. Right? So it's a whole lot of letting go about being worried about that or about being worried about the outcome. And, certainly, I still go you know, I'm listening attentively, and I maybe reflect or or share something with the with the directee. And then I'm still trying to listen, and I'm thinking to myself, why did I just say that? What am I doing? Why did I bring that up? And then you go, okay, holy spirit. Let me let that go. Focus. What do you have? It's okay. I'm not gonna break anything. You know? I'm not gonna you know? God's in control.

37:22You know? Yeah. It's true. It can be so easy to wanna problem solve with the person and be like, I should do this or do that or do that. You know? And sometimes we can help out with some practical things like that, but that's not the majority of what we're doing. Right? But it's definitely you just wanna, like, give them all the answers so that they can walk away. Right? But, really, it's about bringing them into a deeper encounter with the Lord and allowing him to kind of speak to them and direct them. Okay. So let's go in. I have some slides about I think those are all the questions. I have some slides about just the residency. Well, this is, you know, this is what you can expect in the SDC course that it's they're online courses.

38:05We do have two residencies that are here in Sterling, Virginia, and they're they started at a Wednesday evening, and they end at Sunday lunch. And, in fact, we're in a residency right now. I gotta be at the university tomorrow morning. Nice and early for that. So those are the times that we ask you to come here to get the skill training and to really be able to work, right, with you. And then there's sixty practicum hours. They're where you're seeing people in spiritual direction and receiving supervision. So that's what makes up those practicum hours. There's six courses. And as we were speaking about before, it's asynchronous, meaning, like, Kat made that referral. It's not that you're getting online for classes every week.

38:48It's, you know, you work through the material altogether, respecting those weekly deadlines. And then you get you there's triad work. There is sometimes when you have to get online for some things, but, it's not most you know, the learning is really done through the platform and all that you need. The readings, the videos, everything's there. So you can be like, oh gosh. I need to see that video again. I just see it again or whatever you need to do, to be review reviewing that information and and reading it and going through it on your own time. I wanted to talk a little bit about the residencies. What was your experience, Kat, of the residencies? Yeah. The residencies are essentially the best part of the entire program.

39:38There's but there's so much good all around, but just being able to be in person, face to face, having such an in-depth practice, with everyone. The live feedback that you get, I think, was, you know, potentially really nerve wracking at first. We were like, oh my gosh. They're gonna they're gonna tell us right now what we're doing wrong. So, but it turned out to be so it was an accelerator. I think that's the best way to kinda do that. It was a real accelerator. You kind of go ahead into the residency having learned a lot of things and starting to practice some things, and that the resident should accelerate the whole process. You walk away so much more confident, so much more skilled after those just few days together.

40:28And then, of course, there's the social aspect of meeting everyone and being together. It's actually really it was really beautiful. It was really, you know, it was kind of like going back to camp or something. You know, like, if you stay with someone or even if you don't, like, we would often gather in the lobby together, like, after classes and eat together. We had a little prayer night one night that just, like, organically happened, and it was really great and, like, you will never forget certain things. So there's just a lot about that in person experience that was hugely beneficial, and they come at just the right time. Again, it's like Mhmm. You know, even when I was like, why are we doing this or that, it all just, like, come right at the right time for the next thing you would learn.

41:14You know? Mhmm. Yeah. So the picture here, you could see the groups just, you know, how diverse the groups are. Men and women, priests, religious sisters. You know? That's really interesting. I always enjoy that. Did you enjoy just having so many different people, different personalities? Or Definitely. Coming from all different places, all different types of day jobs slash different ministries they were involved in, and it really brings a lot of perspective too because as you describe, discussed the live conversation about either reading or a skill or whatever it was, you know, people are bringing in different perspectives that I never would have covered or I didn't see in the reading. Right?

41:56But they're coming from these other places, so they they did. So, yeah, I we had a really diverse group. Even the cohort that I started with and the one I ended with, it was it was just very robust. You know? Yeah. It is. It's a beautiful experience. So these residencies happen at the end of the third course and at the beginning of the fifth course. So you're basically doing one residency a year. And, you know, we put you up in a hotel, which is right next to the university. And, really, the cost of the residencies includes everything except, I think, three dinners. And, of course, you're traveling to get to the, you know, to get here. But, it is it is a beautiful time. And, yeah, as you said, you know, just, I guess, I think intense would be one way I would describe it, but I kind of like the what was the word that you used, Kat?

42:52I like that. Accelerate. Accelerate. Yeah. It does. That's what's a one word person was saying to me. Like, it's like, you know, it's like a whole another course. You know? In that one time frame. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Okay. Well, we've got a little bit more time, so let me take some questions before we just kinda wind up here. Let's see what they're saying. With this certification, do you have a potential for filling other parish diocesan jobs other than direction? But, I mean, it definitely is created to to help someone become a spiritual director, but kinda like you were saying, Kat, just like the listening skills. I think it really does help you to be able to be in kind of any type of spiritual situation and have a spiritual conversation.

43:43Like, you were saying with the marriage retreat, it's helped you a lot. Absolutely. Yeah. Mhmm. Yeah. I think it's certainly I don't know that it's a qualification that gets you a job, but it would definitely augment your skills for any any pastoral role, any, you know, service role within the parish community. Absolutely. And I think, number one, it would prepare you better than without. And then number two, it may, you know, just be additive to those roles within the parish that they're available and things like that. So certainly, yes. It could look, oh, well, this person has this this full background that they've been training x y z. It definitely could be could be an advantage for something.

44:29Mhmm. Exactly. Yeah. I know. Like, a friend of mine, he did the he did a spiritual direction training program, and he also works as an EMT. So now they just made him the chaplain of the EMTs in his area and Yeah. You know? And he's doing that too, which is to be available for them for any type of confidential conversation they'd like to have or need you know? So Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. I just had someone reach out, actually, just who who knows that I've gone through this and and seeing people and so forth. And I haven't even I haven't seen them or anything. And they said, we wanna put on a women's retreat. Would you come and facilitate this and then provide spiritual hardship? And, I was like, yes.

45:17That sounds fantastic. You know? But it was because, they know that I've had this training that they reached out to me. Yeah. I think retreat work has a lot to do with it. Yeah. So this is the this is a good question. What if your heart is drawn to this, yet you realize your personality may be too bubbly for this, or you realize that people generally do not seem to take you very seriously. Oh. Well, there are a lot of different personalities. I haven't you know, it's not like all of you guys in the program are serious, timid, quiet people. I would say, you know, I was gonna say ten years ago, but maybe five years ago, I don't know that anyone would have believed me if I said that I was gonna do this.

46:07So, I wasn't really the best blood thinner, to be honest. Mhmm. And I would definitely put myself in the extra retarded category. I'm also you know, I might seem like I maybe know what I'm talking about here, but I get to present frequently, something that I do frequently for work. So not everybody looks like me either in terms of, you know, being able to come on the show and talk about what what was going on. Right? Not everybody would be comfortable with that even though who are excellent virtual directors and did really well in the program. All different types. I mean, god calls all types. I had to learn how to fill myself. Me on a virtual direction call is very different than me in my everyday life and the rest of my day.

46:53Truly, truly, I've I it is seeping into the rest of my life and in the way that I engage and listen and and much, you know, bite my tongue more and listen, you know, listen more and bite my tongue more. But it's but it is different. So you can you can it doesn't I don't think we're you should discriminate for yourself based on personality by any means. You learn skills. The skills can be anywhere. The call is there, anyone who learn the skills, honestly. Mhmm. Yeah. So true. Let's see. There are in the chat, I see that they put something. Let's see. How do you deal with this big responsibility, pressure, and privilege of helping to guide souls, others? Any fears? Oh, lots of fears. Yeah. You can't let those stop you.

47:50We talked about this a lot in in maybe some of it formally in the course and a lot of it informally. It looks like especially in my cohort, we talked about it. And, you know, it is it is a lot of let go and let God because you have to trust that he's called you into this role, and that is for a reason. You know, it's like Moses. He was like, I can't be the one. I'm like a federer. Right? You know? No. I I have you I know what I'm doing. Don't question what I'm doing. I know why I have you here into this. And it is so hard because you do you do feel the tremendous, at least at first, the tremendous responsibility. And I feel like it's important never to completely lose that because you don't wanna become it like, it's mundane and flip it, and you're not realizing just the the gravity of being in someone's spiritual walk with them.

48:41But you do learn how to let go and let the holy spirit do what he's doing. And to and and if a lot of the skills you learn is to take yourself out of the equation. Right? So you and that you do. You take your personality out. You take your your scrupulosity out that you might have. You take the way you feel about the scenario out. And you learn how to be very attentive to your own inner movement so that they are not influencing what's happening in that space. Mhmm. You can set them aside Yeah. And extract them from what the holy spirit is doing. And it's through that process that you also learn how to let go of concerns like that. You know, expectations might be or if you might mess something up or anything.

49:25So you all of those skills help you to help set that aside. And so for me, you know, like I said, I of course of course, you still got caught here and there and, in sessions and and wanna beat myself about about something I said or did I did I step in something there or anything. But, again, immediately following that, it's like, okay, holy spirit. Let's just take that just take that right now. I'm not gonna think about that. I'm not gonna worry about that. You can take this where you need it to go. Mhmm. Exactly. And then I was also thinking kind of the work that's done in the program of helping you understand kind of what the field of the spiritual director is and kinda what you're getting trained to do and kinda what's outside of your area of training and so that you can make referrals or be or, you know, always be able to say, well, you know, this is this is probably what I can tell you about it, but this is you know, I don't know this.

50:16You'd probably wanna find a priest, maybe ask him. You know, just that capacity, that healthy capacity to be able to say, well, this is what we're doing. This is how I can help you. That I'm not a counselor. I'm not, you know, I'm not a moral theologian. I'm not. Right? So uh-huh. Knowing your limits. Yeah. Absolutely. Exactly. One more question here. Do you have a support team after you finish the program to assist with any future issues? Absolutely. Definitely. You can probably tell everyone more about that than I can, but you are set up to be in consistent supervision, and ongoing supervision based on the number of hours that you're seeing people. You kind of have a goal of how often you wanna be in supervision to help catch anything like that.

51:06Yeah. So and that's the thing you do. And I do always, when students graduate, kinda let them know some of the groups that exist or how they can kinda get themselves. We go through that process and get to that 600, that last course of, like, okay. What kind of supervisor would you need? What type of support do you need as you're doing this? So that you can start thinking that through and have that set up. But, yeah, you do need that support. The university doesn't establish those things ourselves, but we really try to give you kind of the resources and the tools so that you can find that. So that's great. It's always helpful. Well, we're really getting towards the end here. So, Kat, is there anything that you'd say to someone that's looking into the certificate?

51:54I wish I could convince everyone, especially if you you you feel that pull and that tug and some kind of call to it because it is really transformational, which I know can sound scary, but I think it's a lot about in what doses. And it's just that the right pacing for what you can consume, what you can process. You know? And so, yeah, I would encourage anyone to look into it. And and, my my thought is, you know, do a class. When I did the first class, I wasn't like, okay. I'm doing the full program. I was like, I'll take a class and see what I learned and see if this feels right, like, the right place to be, and then it just flowed from there. And I had I had one person who did leave midway because it wasn't what they were looking for.

52:46And I was like, okay. Well, yeah, I learned a lot. It was really great and informative, and I created all the new relationships and everything. Right? So that was my thought is to take a step and see what happens from there. Right? Yeah. Exactly. And it is a pay as you go program. So as you register for each course, you you can take it. You know, you're not you don't need to be paying upfront for you know, it's not like a college education or anything like that. So that pay as you go does help you to kind of register and then take a course and then see. And there's spacing between all the courses that definitely gives you. You're taking three courses a year, so that's giving you time for reflection and prayer and just kind of life to happen and see where God's taking you.

53:30I did wanna leave with, just to give a little information that, on the website, there is you know, if you go on to divine mercy and under the academic programs, you'll find the spiritual direction certificate. And there's you know, some of the information we've given you tonight is there. You can also get in touch with Greg Shapiro, who's our admissions adviser. This is his phone number, and you can, you know, call or text message him either way or email him. And he'll be able to have, you know, a personal conversation, maybe answer some more questions that you might have, about the program. I see that there's one more question that came in here. So how many courses, David? Okay. So hopefully, you got that, David.

54:15It's six courses, and it's $800 a course. The residencies do have a separate price, which is that 1,100 for the residency because it covers the teaching, the materials, the lodging, the food. Right? And you take care of flying in and flying out or driving in and driving out or luckily, we're very close to the Dallas Airport, like, maybe ten minutes from there. So it's really easy to get in and out of the airport, and the hotel shuttle picks you up. So I think I was always coming the furthest, and I made it. So Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. You are coming from California. Right? So well, good, Kat. Thanks so much for this time. It's been a joy having you on, and thank you for Totally. You know, for answering all these questions and just sharing sharing your experience.

55:07Yes. God bless all of you in your discernment, and I'm so excited to hear about how how so many of you will be joining the program and just experiencing all that God has for you in this. Thank you. Thank thank you all for coming. God bless you all.