SDC Q&A session with Alumna Sharon Mank & Fr John Pietropaoli

0:05Do you know, maybe we just go ahead. Okay. We'll start with a prayer, and we'll just kind of ease into it. And then people will yeah. People will start to to filter in. In the name of the father and of the son and of the holy spirit. Amen. Amen. Oh god, by the light of the Holy Spirit, you have taught the hearts of your faithful. In the same spirit, make us truly wise and give us the joy of your comfort and your guidance. We ask this through Christ our lord. Amen. Amen. Mary, mother of mercy Pray for us. Pray for us in the name of the father and of the son and of the holy spirit. Amen. Amen. Alright. Well, just a big welcome to everyone who is here online. We can't see you, but we know you're there.

0:59And I'm father John Pietro Pauli. So I teach in the spiritual direction program. I teach the 600 course, which is the last of the courses, The last, hopefully, not the least. And then I also, helped to lead the residency in the 500 course. And later on, when we have overview of the program, I'll go through a little bit more what I mean by that, what the residency is. And, also, I've actually had the blessing to be involved in the spiritual direction program pretty much since its inception, in 2017. We had a, a meeting here at Divine Mercy University, which at that time was still located in a very, cramped and uncomfortable office building in Downtown Arlington. You know, just a group of spiritual directors, some legionaries of Christ, some laypeople who wanted to talk about developing a spiritual direction program through Divine Mercy University.

1:58So that's, that's where that began. And since then, it's just grown. It started in 2019, and it's just grown wonderfully and has been a huge blessing for me personally just to be a part of it in so many different ways. I also want to introduce Sharon. How do you pronounce your last name, Sharon? Mank. Mank. Okay. Sharon Mank, who is a graduate of our program here at Divine Mercy. And I was wondering, Sharon, if you could just tell us a little bit about yourself. Sure. I went through the program at a very significant time in my life. It was major transition, but I graduated in May. Probably finished up the coursework, a little bit or a couple months earlier than that, and then actually when I think it was December that I finished up and then participated in the program in May.

2:53So I've been walking with people throughout the program and seeing where God is leading me to use this ministry in the church. Alright. Well, we're glad to have you tonight. Thank you. And, basically, the format, what we're going to be following is we'll have some time for Sharon to answer some questions. I'll be asking her some questions. We'll just have a conversation about that. And then I do have a few slides as well that I'll present after that, just a quick overview of what spiritual direction is and what the program itself looks like. And then we'll have some time for questions as well. And I think the best way to ask questions is probably the chat here. We already have a question here.

3:39Somebody asking me, was I ever in the marine corps? I was never in the marine corps. Now when I was in high school, I've actually wanted to be an army ranger, but thought of other plans. So I love the marines too, though. Nothing against the marines. Okay. So, yeah, you can just be putting questions in here as they come up. And some of the questions, the more practical questions, will probably be answered as well in the slideshow presentation just so you know that. Alright. Well, Sharon, so the first question that I wanted to ask was just overall, we can start generally. What was your experience in the spiritual direction program? I'd have to say overall, it was an excellent experience. Gained far more than I could have anticipated.

4:27And it was something I've served in a done ministry in the church for most of my my life, beginning with CCD when I was in high school. But the program itself, the content, the flexibility of the scheduling, overall, I got so much more than I anticipated as a person and where I was in my own spiritual life when I started the program. And it became a very safe and, loving environment, which was conducive to what we were learning about. So, it definitely, overall, was excellent. Yes. There were times that it was hard or whatever, but it if you are discerning possibly being a spiritual director, I definitely would advise going through the program. And I was wondering too, Sharon. You used a couple words there, safe and loving.

5:34I was wondering if you could say a bit more about that because you said that was conducive to the skills that you were learning too. You know, it really was. I the program came at a time, like I said, it was a major shift in, my ministry, and I moved from the West Coast to the East Coast. So that was a a transition time for me. What I found from the staff and the program and the content of the six classes was the loving, nurturing space for myself to grow, looking at at where I've come from in my spiritual life and that that safety of what we hope to give to our directees. And it's in hindsight to be able to pinpoint that was what I was actually spear experiencing all along in the process. So the practical of how to how to be a spiritual director and the program itself provided me the very thing that we're being trained to do.

6:43Okay. It's interesting you bring that up because I was just thinking about when we were developing this program, you know, so many years ago no. Well, not so many years ago. It seems like so many years ago now. That one of the things that we were talking about quite a bit was what, you know, what does god hope a spiritual director is? You know, in addition and even more importantly than the different skills that we learn, which are obviously very important, and the different knowledge that we learn, which is also important. But above all, what are we called to be? Who are we called to be as spiritual directors? Mhmm. And, yeah, those words are very good. Like, the safe and the loving space in which the the soul in front of us, the person in front of us, and also we ourselves as spiritual directors can hear God and respond.

7:39And I think even for an online program, you know, there are there are different, activities throughout where we'll have a reading assignment on a particular topic or an exercise and then the opportunity to share that in small groups of, say, a triad or or whatever. And posting those and then having the feedback of not only the instructor at the time, but then your fellow classmates. That was affirming being able to affirm others in their insights While I was benefiting from insights that others had from what I had shared, I was also benefiting from their interpretation, peripheral reflection on the same material that I was called to read as a fellow student. Yeah. That's a great point. Maybe kind of like in the gospel, Jesus says where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I in their midst.

8:39That there is something powerful about sharing those experiences and learning through conversation with others and sharing with others and through hearing others' experiences too. Mhmm. Father, someone mentioned by safe, do I mean a trusting environment? I would have to say yes. There was, number one, you're in a forum where strangers from all over the world, actually, because we have people that are international students. And that safety of we learn in spiritual direction that it takes time to build a level of trust and security with a directee and, you know, the director. And there again, that was being given to us in the very environment of online. And you never had to share more than what you chose to or at what level.

9:34And so, really, the challenge and the opportunity to respect ourselves in that process. And I think the experience too, some of those skills and I don't know. I think it may have been in the 200 or 300 class, the listening skills, the active questioning, those kinds of things, while we were learning to develop and deepen our ability to use those skills, ultimately, those of us who are seeking to be spiritual directors or think God is calling us to do it, there's already a degree of facility with those skills. And, of course, we're developing, learning where our strengths and weaknesses are in the process. Yeah. That's a great point. One of our recent graduates, or I think recent graduates, or maybe still is finishing up the program, Therese, said something in the chat, which I think goes along with what you were saying, Sharon, that we're called to be compassionate listeners as spiritual directors.

10:41And so we're at a safe environment where there's total respect for us as students. And, also, it's something that we then take into our own ministry as spiritual directors that there's there's deep respect, compassion, reverence for the person in front of us, and a deep trust in god too because God's the one who makes everything safe in the end. I mean, everything's safe within God, in God and his strength. Mhmm. I think that's a good point because that common a common understanding that people in the class and the instructors that we all have a personal relationship, and we're coming with that to whatever level any one person. And we seek to have that mature to grow deeper. And, of course, there's already, you know, the requirements for the program and having spiritual direction and those kinds of things that are prerequisites.

11:48But I do believe that, ultimately, the spiritual direction is all about, you know, that relationship or individual relationship with the Lord for not only the DIRECTE, but we as directors, you know, continuing to develop our own personal relationships so that we can be that listening sounding board for the directees. You know, we're we're allowing them to have the sacred space where they can be loved and respected, and they're the experts on their own spiritual life. And we get to be the individuals who, with great reverence, receive whatever a directee shares and then helps them to be affirmed in that understanding of self awareness. And then if the Holy Spirit guides us in a particular way to ask for confirmation from the individual, the directee.

12:48Does that how do you resonate with that? Is that what your experience is? And so, truly, the directee is the expert. The Holy Spirit is revealing himself, and that person is is sharing their awareness of that understanding. Thank you. Yeah. It's well put. Yeah. And speaking of the program, I was wondering what drew you to this particular spiritual direction program? I'd have to say I was familiar with Divine Mercy University. I knew when it was IPS. Like I said earlier, I had been on the the West Coast living for eight years or so, and I was aware of others who I knew who had taken other programs from Divine Mercy. Because many people had asked me to be a spiritual director, I was never formally trained, and so I declined early on because I know the sacredness of it.

13:55And the last thing I would wanna do is to be a hindrance to someone's personal relationship with the Lord. So I took it very, it it was a very sacred thing when people asked me. And, basically, I said, well, you know, I want what you have. And so they were reflecting on my spiritual life. Divine Mercy University, because of the reputation that I had already heard the university had, the fact that the program was online that would fit into my my daily lifestyle. It was definitely within my my price range to be able to get the experience and to make whatever, adjustments I needed to in order to go through the program. And I think just looking at the website and the thoroughness of the curriculum were things that were attracting me to the the program.

14:58Okay. And flowing from that or maybe preceding that in a certain sense, I was wondering if you could just share a little bit too about your own calling to be a spiritual director. What were some of the the elements of that that you might share about your discernment and realization that god might be calling me to be a spiritual director? Having benefited from spiritual direction myself over my entire adult life, having gone to Catholic schools, there again, I think I sought out priests and sisters as spiritual guides and directors. Well, I maybe could not have called it spiritual direction at the time and truly was what it was at that juncture in my life. I personally had benefited so much from spiritual direction, sharing my my journey with the lord and how he was acting in my life that there was a a calling within that I felt the Lord was saying, I need your help to make this available to other individuals.

16:14There's so much of life that I think all of us, myself included, we go through this experience of life. And if we don't make time to be aware of God's voice and action, then the fullness of our life is really hindered. We're not really, living to the utmost. I mean, we can be busy about many things, but it's in the the quiet times. When I hear people's stories, I know for myself, there are more miracles that happen on a daily basis than the world gives credit and acknowledgment of. And I think in my own life, times where, you know, I was near death a number of times and the Lord spared me. So, obviously, he's not finished with me yet. He has more things that he wishes me to be for others. And so hearing that voice, knowing the benefit, knowing the sacredness of it, I would never have while I've worked with students, by profession and educator, the sacredness again to really get out of the way and allow a person to flourish in their relationship and understanding of God's love for them.

17:42I knew I needed a structured environment to hone in on the very skills to be the best experience of that, create to be able to create that experience for other people. Yeah. And you bring up a really good point there, Sharon. It just struck me talking about the miracles that are are happening all the time, the action of God. Right? Mhmm. I was just thinking of, the book of Revelation chapter one when it says the voice of the lord is like the voice of many waters. And it's such an interesting image because water is constant. You know, you're ever you know, the ocean or a brook or a stream or a river, the flow the sound is constant, the voice of the waters. And yet it's it's usually pretty gentle.

18:29Mhmm. And, you know, Satan is the one who's loud because he's afraid in the end. I mean, knows that compared to God, he's infinitely weak, and so he's loud. And he has to he has to constantly present these partial victories as total victories. You see it in the news every day. Right? I mean, the news is just mostly bad news. And that's Satan's narrative. Right? Like, I've won. This is mine. All these all that you see here, like he says to Jesus and the temptation, all the world is mine. Of course, it's not true. But God's so powerful. He doesn't have to shout, and he doesn't shout, actually. He normally just speaks in that soft, still voice like Elijah in, first Kings 19 where Elijah hears the voice.

19:14Yeah. And so a spiritual director is able to be present with someone to help them in different ways as they become aware of that Yes. That voice, yeah, and respond to that. Yeah. Yeah. Another question that just came up that perhaps some of our listeners might have is, could you say a little bit about, being a layperson and a spiritual director? Because, you know, the for a long time, and we won't get into the reasons why, but in the tradition of the church, especially after the Council of Trent for the last four or five hundred years, generally, spiritual directors were considered to be priests or religious. Mhmm. And yet we know as pope John Paul the second, pope Benedict, pope France now reaffirmed that for much of Christianity, it was actually open.

20:12It was a charism, a gift given to laypeople and to priests and to religious. So I was wondering if you could say a bit more about that as a layperson and what what that was like. I would definitely say that while the training of priests and religious with all the theology and the formation that they have definitely gives a groundedness, a a lived experience where their whole life is dedicated to the service of God. The population in the church, the greatest population is laity. And I know that I always marvel at those who have not vowed through either to a a religious community or to the bishop that individuals in the church, Christians, have this commitment in in fostering, reading, developing their their lived relatedness to the Lord.

21:25And sometimes, I think, you know, while it is built in for priests and religious to have their prayer time and their structure, I mean, I still know that they have their ministries and their activities that have to get in there. But as far as, knowledge of their schedule, it's kind of built into their daily schedule. Whereas the laity really have to make the concentrated effort to schedule their prayer life, whether it's getting up early to to do that quiet meditation or coffee with the Lord or or whatever it might be. And, I do believe that part of the calling of the laity is a life of flexibility, that if you if you are married, you have the commitment to your your spouse or for the care of your children.

22:21And while we can find God in any of those, and we need to find God in in all events of life, we still need those designated times of prayer. So while I can find God in a sunset or whatever when I'm driving, I still need to set aside those times where I listen to the word of God in scripture or whether it be on a retreat, whatever. And so, there's definitely each vocation in the church has its blessings and also its challenges to develop that and deepen that that individual life with the Lord. Yes. Yeah. We're all called to that union with the Lord. Mhmm. Yeah. And spiritual direction is what's called in the church a charism. Traditionally, theology has seen that as a as they say in Latin, a grace that's given for the sake of others.

23:31Yes. And scripture direction is one of those graces that God can give to and does give to priest, religious, laity. It's it's kind of a a universal in that sense that there's some from each state of life that he calls to that ministry. Mhmm. Right? Which is actually reflecting back on what you said, how we're all called to holiness, and God gives us different people in our lives to help us in that journey, communion with him. And one of those is a spiritual director. Yes. Yeah. I was wondering if you could say a little bit too along those lines about what what has being a spiritual director now what has that brought into your own relationship with the Lord? If I had to say it in one word, it's great joy.

24:18Well, that's really two words, but joy. I know that walking with individuals with the directees that I have, I I walk away with not only the beauty of their soul and what they have shared, the beauty of how they integrate the challenges and struggles of their their daily life and finding God in all of that. And I think I'm I'm awestruck with the individuals that I've worked with and how each person uniquely finds God in their set of circumstances. And not having been married and not been called to the married state, the directees who are married enhance my life from a vocation that I wasn't given. And being able to walk with individuals and in their struggle to maintain their fidelity to their spouse and and challenges with their children or whatever it might be that they share and how they find the way to bring God in the midst of those things.

25:38That the beauty of seeing the ebb and flow in the spiritual direction session, an individual can come in and be talking about all the events and circumstances going on. And then to provide that silence and the questioning to bring them to a deeper level. What is all all the surface, emotions or, you know, whatever it is that's going on, the details, to let them the time and space to let the waters come to find what's really going on, the bigger picture. And that is where the wonder and amazement comes to see the ebb and flow, the highs and lows within any one spiritual direction session. And it's just so joyful to see, even in the midst of the struggles, the beauty of what god is doing in a person's life.

26:39Yeah. That sounds like that brings you a lot of joy. Mhmm. Yeah. I think it was Saint John of the Cross who said, every time that he accompanied somebody as a spiritual director in spiritual direction, that it opened new windows to God in his own soul. Yeah. And it sounds like that's your experience as well. Yes. We're all unique and unrepeatable life journeys. We can have similar similar situations. But as we learn in the program, we all have our own family of origin and and the blessings or the struggles and how that forms us and what we do with the circumstances of life. And it you can have two people experience the exact same event, and it's not gonna have the same impact because they're not the same people.

27:43Right. Their experiences aren't the same. Yeah. So true. Everyone is unique. Okay. Well, a little bit of a a tougher question maybe, but I think it's also important. Mhmm. What was most difficult about the program for you? Myself. I think, you know, we get in our way. We we can put we can be the stumble block stumbling block for our own spiritual growth. And I think some of the challenges with with that is, letting go of preconceived ideas of what spiritual direction was or is. While I've had many spiritual directors in my life, I'm privileged to have had the same one now. She's the abbot of a Port Claire monastery, and I've I've been with her for over twenty years. And so she knows me in and and through.

28:49And I think while each spiritual director I've had, the approach has basically been the same, but there's different takes in whatever their formation was in being a spiritual director. It really was a lot of letting go. Letting go that spiritual direction is I have to be so well trained that I have the answers for the directee, which is just the opposite. I don't have any answers for the directee. I mean, I can gently guide or or ask the right questions that may lead a directee to a greater understanding for themselves, you know, by giving that opportunity. One thing that I did notice in the process that initially was a challenge, but it was a very great opportunity for growth was if I was directing someone and they got emotional and the tears and wanting to fix it, wanting the person not to cry or whatever.

29:54And I had to reflect with that a lot. And so the challenge was, what is that all about? You know, was it an idea in my mind that you're weak if you cry? What were those, like, mantras that I was telling myself positively or negatively? And so the challenge is there. Challenges aren't always bad. They can lead us to a deeper level, and they really did. It was a matter of saying, okay. You know, I can sit here with this person who's crying for whatever reason, whether tears of joy or sorrow or pain, and I don't have to push them along. I can just sit with them in it. And I think that was where the rethinking of what a spiritual director is, what are the qualities, what is a directee looking for from a spiritual director?

30:47Basically, I think we all just want to be heard, you know, and validated. And the program does allow for that. How do I validate a person in their experience? By just, you know, some of the listening skills of that sounds really hard for you, or that seems like that really brought you joy. And I was even noticing you doing that with me in this process. It almost the program changes us in such a way that we become the very things that we're learning. That's really well said. We become the very things that we're learning. Yeah. Yeah. It sounds like that would it be fair to say that's that's freeing too as a spiritual director? You said you don't have to have all the answers. You're not here to solve everything.

31:38Exactly. What Yeah. So much. I one of the the great takeaways was how much happened in the silence. Not having to say anything, but to give the directee and the program allowing me to have the time to reflect what's going on with me and anticipating or, conjuring what might be going in the directory. You know, does that make you how does that make you feel? Or what is where are you feeling that? Or is there an image that you can identify and with that with that feeling? And so while the challenges were hard, I remember at one point in the program, I mean, I was almost completely finished, and it could have been the res the the 500 residency. I was ready to quit the program, and I know that that was the evil one.

32:42And I think it was an acknowledgment of the sacredness of what I was quickly approaching, being in that graduate alum to be able to to have a certificate to say that I've been trained to be a spiritual director. My own perfectionistic ways of I want to do it right. And the freedom, like you said, Father, came when I realized spiritual direction is not about me. It's all about God and the directee. And I didn't have to work as hard. And the freedom came when I can just sit and receive the person who walks through the door. Yeah. That glorious freedom of the children of God that Saint Paul talks about in Romans. Yeah. Yes. And you mentioned the residency. So I was wondering if you could just speak a bit about that because, although the program is primarily online, there are two four day in person residencies the students come to right here at Divine Mercy in Sterling, Virginia.

33:56So could you just say a word or two about your experience at those residencies? I had the opportunity to do one in person and one virtual because of the resurgence of COVID. Obviously, in person, while you can have Zoom meetings and even what we're doing now, it's not the same of being in person with someone. They both provided, obviously, what God knew I needed at that time in the program. I'm glad that I had the one on one in, in the program by a live residency, getting to, in real time, meet my classmates. I know that one person was asking about, you know, do you end up being with the same students? Because sometimes a a person can't keep on the program and go straight through six classes.

34:55They might have a family situation, and then if that postpones it. So what is exciting is our paths do cross with the ones we start with. And then as alum, we're always connected, which is wonderful. But the residencies definitely provided when we were in person, you got you had the opportunity when we weren't in session to get to know individuals on a on a deeper personal level, what they're involved in, those kinds of things. So those downtimes in between the residency. The online was the structure, but still lent itself even though we weren't in person with individuals. And for me, it was the second second residency that wasn't in person. And so I had already been working with the students, my classmates, up until that point.

35:52And so I think that made a difference as well. I think having the immediate feedback, being able to see the modeling that was in both online and in person, where the instructors of the program or the team that was during the residency would be able to intervene in the middle of a practicum of acting as a director and a directee, and then have them be able to stop and say, This would be a good time to ask a question. So, residencies were truly intense, challenging, fruitful, and life giving. Well, maybe, just before we move to the brief slideshow overview, maybe any last thoughts, Sharon? Any anything you'd say to somebody who's listening now who's maybe thinking, perhaps I'm called to be a spiritual director.

36:55I'd like to learn more about this. Perhaps I'd like to think more about this. I would definitely say take the leap and do it. Because if there's that thought that you might be called, even if you discern not to do it, the benefits of going through the six classes will nurture your life in ways that you can take into whatever ministry or work you are called in the church. So the the personal benefits of the program Lead an individual to get their questions answered, to deepen their prayer life. And if that discernment leads them to say, yes, I wanna take on directees, fantastic. And even if they finish the program and discern not to be a spiritual director, it will not be in vain. They will have grown as an individual in the process and still be a better person because of it.

37:58Alright. Well, thank you. So I'll share my screen. I'll have a really brief overview, and then, we'll get some of the questions. And so, Sharon, you and I can answer some of those questions after we do this as well. Probably a lot of this is already pretty well known. It might be review, but it's always good to go back. And as we say that repetition is the mother of learning. So why is spiritual direction such an important ministry? As Sharon said very wonderfully, we all want to be heard. This is kind of at a basic level. We all desperately want to be heard. We need to be heard by another person. And yet there are very few places in life, very few spaces, we could say, where someone's just really deeply, deeply, deeply listening to us without any agenda, without trying to problem solve or fix anything, but just to listen, just to receive, as Sharon put it very well, what what I have on my heart to share.

38:56God made us that way. We're created in the image and likeness of God, Genesis one twenty six. So we're created out of communion, out of love, and for love, for communion with God and with others. You could think about what God says about the human person. It's not good for the human person to be alone. So we're created for this for this relationship at a human level. And then as well, building on that, accompanying our sisters and brothers in the faith to help strengthen their faith, hope, and love. That as I share what's on my heart with a spiritual director, someone who's reverently listening to me and receiving what I'm saying, that person's modeling God's love for me. Their faith, hope, and love is also inspiring me in my own faith, hope, and love.

39:51So there's something very beautiful that happens. Then building on that, guiding another to find the lord in every situation in life through the questions that we ask, through the way that we help a spiritual directee just to explore what is god doing in my life. How is he speaking to me? What's he saying? And how is he inviting me to respond? So how is God making his love manifest for me in my life? How is he speaking to me, and how is he inviting me to respond in love? So very beautiful the way that all of these are present. We're always deeply listening in spiritual direction. We're always accompanying, and we're also helping guide another to discover what the lord is doing, how the lord is speaking, what he's saying, and how he's inviting that person, calling that person to respond.

40:46And then giving spiritual direction as a help also for the direct door to grow in his or her relationship with God. I think Sharon, described that very wonderfully, how the Saint John of the Cross and when we give spiritual direction, we're also growing in our relationship with the Lord. We're discovering the presence of the Lord more deeply in our own lives. Okay. So let's get a little bit more practical here. So what to expect in the divine mercy spiritual direction course? So it's an online platform. As Sharon said, there are two in person residencies here in Divine Mercy University for four days each, but other than that, it's online. At the same time, and this is probably important to know, it's asynchronous.

41:38So it's not that the professor will say, you know, at 9AM this morning, I'm giving a lecture, and everybody has to call into Zoom to listen to the lecture. So the different videos are prerecorded. The reading is already up there. So there are assignments that are due each week, but each person can proceed at his or her pace, if that makes sense. That it's not that you all have to be together for classes. Now there are some activities, particularly in the 400, 500, and 600, where we're practicing spiritual direction via Zoom. And, obviously, there, you know, people are together in those groups. But even there, it's not the whole class together at the same time. It would be small groups from that class who are meeting at the same time.

42:28There are six courses. Each course is eight weeks long. There are two residencies, as I mentioned. And then there are 60 practicum hours. So practicum is just Latin for, basically, practice. And so towards the end of the program in, the five hundred and six hundred courses, which are the last two of those six courses, There is requirement to have sixty hours of a combination of spiritual direction with real direct fees and then also some time for what's called supervision, which is an opportunity for the, student directors who are learning to be spiritual directors to review their own experience of spiritual direction with an instructor and with a group of their peers. And all of this is explained very, very extensively throughout the course.

43:34I know it's probably it probably sounds like well, it sounds like Latin now. Right? What is practicum? What does that mean? But, basically, it's sixty hours of of supervised spiritual direction. And supervised doesn't mean that there's somebody sitting in on the spiritual direction sessions, but it means that I, as a student director, will have a chance to download after and process in a group with an instructor of what my experience of that spiritual direction session was like. Okay. The residencies, two four day residencies on campus. So you get the chance to come here, come to the campus, see the different programs that are here, meet people in person. There's also the chance to put into practice the skills that you're learning under the supervision of spiritual directors and therapists.

44:25So we always have a team of facilitators here, and there's a lot of practice role play spiritual direction, which is so valuable. It's incredibly valuable. In my own training as a spiritual director, that was one of the most helpful elements just to be able to to practice and then to receive feedback on what seemed to work, what didn't seem to work. So residency one is in the third class. The third term residency two is in the fifth class. Okay. Costs. So $800 a course, and then $1,100 per residency. And that covers lodging, materials, most of the meals is that students are responsible for three of their dinners on Thursday, Friday, and Saturday. It does not cover the cost of the flight, obviously, or the transportation here.

45:24And then at the bottom, it says practicum. So another practicum here. This is just the cost of the, supervision, and this is all explained extensively in the course. So there are two types of practicum that you could do in the last two courses. One of them is where you find your own supervisor, and that's $50 and then a $100 per term. So it's just to kind of give you a sense of of what you're looking at. 800 per course, six courses, 1,100 per residency, two residencies, you know, plus transportation, and then either a $100 or $200 depending on the option that you choose for this practicum. Okay. So how to apply for those who would like to apply, those who feel they might be called to this. So there's a short application form.

46:29There is a requirement for three recommendations from one's own spiritual director or spiritual mentor, pastor of one's parish or one's superior if one's in a religious order, or apostolate leader or ministry leader as well if you're involved in some ministry. It could be any one of those three. It doesn't have to be all three of those, but a pastor or a superior or an apostolate ministry leader. And then just a friend or a colleague or a fellow parishioner. And then there's a group interview as well. Now this gentleman here, Greg Shapiro, is our admissions adviser. He's the one who can answer all your practical questions, everything you wanna know about the nuts and bolts and ins and outs, and he's very quick, with email.

47:22This is his email here, gchapero@divinemercy.edu. And then, phone number is here as well. And it it says he accepts calls and text messages. That is helpful as well. So, again, Greg Shapiro, his email, and then his phone number. Okay. So I'm going to stop sharing here. Sounds pretty selfish, doesn't it? But we're gonna do it. Alright. So stop sharing, and we will go back to some of these questions here. Okay. So there's one I'm wondering if I have to retake, general ed classes, or is this certificate class? Yeah. This is a certificate class. So, there are not academic prerequisites for it per se, but each of the classes in this program are very important. So there's no, yeah, there's no opportunity to to opt out or place out of them because each one is so integral to the program itself, each of those six courses.

48:38Then there's a question. In your experience, do you find that peoples are seeking spiritual direction pretty regularly? Have you encountered people who seem intimidated by what spiritual direction could mean? It may seem to them that they may need to already be holy in order to have a spiritual director. Maybe, Sharon, I'll let you answer that one. I would say people that want spiritual direction want it on a regular basis. In the program, we're everything is guided in the program, but you could you start with walking with individuals as prayer partners. I did that, and then when I from that from those prayer partners, I asked them if they wanted to continue with spiritual direction, and they all did.

49:23And I'm still meeting with all of them. And, initially, I was meeting with them to get to know them because they were all brand new for me every two weeks. So it gave me a lot of continuity with them. But now I meet once a month and according to their needs. I think the people that have sought out spiritual direction from me, they all have already had a a developed, prayer life. The individuals that I'm working with right now, that won't always be the case, I realize. I think all of us think, you know, that idea of holiness or or whatever, but that's where, the intimidation, anyone who would seek me out, I was able to say, let's have an initial meeting to find out what you're understanding.

50:16And I've also something that the program gives, some suggestions on, some basic questions to kinda get to know them. You know, basic information. Are they married, have children, whatever? And then, something about their prayer life or what they seek in spiritual direction. So you're really laying the groundwork, and that is something that would would eventually come up if there's that reluctance or feeling of not being holy enough to be in spiritual direction. And I'd be the first one to say that none of us are holy enough. We're striving. We're all here striving. And so I think more and more people are realizing the need to have someone to talk to spiritually. And I also think with this, we never really got into it.

51:10Knowing what spiritual direction is not often helps us to define what it is. So we know it's not therapy. We know it's not counseling. There are trained helping professions, and even one of the charts that I found extremely helpful in the program was defining what each of those helping professions were for. And knowing that if someone comes to me, they may need counseling and to be able to say, this isn't in my realm. You know? You might, you know, want to look and seek out. And I think there too, Divine Mercy University is a great place for resources to find well trained Catholic therapists or Christian therapists because that's another thing that to have the resources above and beyond spiritual direction where we can refer people to is really helpful.

52:10Thank you. There's another question earlier there about, the size of the classes. So how big are the classes? And it's an interesting question because it's very flexible since it's an online platform. I mean, I think the smallest that we've had is maybe 11 or 12 students, and then we've had up to 35, I think. So it's it's quite flexible. So I really couldn't give a standard answer for that because it really just depends on how many people sign up for that particular cohort, as they call it, that particular group. The nice thing about that too, father, like you said, I was in one of those that had 35, but they will have two instructors and split students. So you might have 10 to 15. And so those are the ones who might be responding to your online assignments.

53:03And then, like, the residency could be a mishmash of those two particular classes that you say, oh, I do I was never in a class with you, but they're on the same they're in the same class overall type of thing in the program. Yeah. And then as you mentioned, Sharon, as well, occasionally or fairly frequently, students might have to take a leave of absence just for different and that's also possible as well Right. To do that. So to miss, you know, miss a a course there and do that course later in the next, the next semester when it's next offered because the courses are offered fairly frequently throughout the year. It's August to October, and then it begins again in January, January to March, and then May to July.

53:50And so there's an opportunity. Okay. Well, maybe I missed, you know, let's say, the fifth course. I missed it in August to October, but I could do it then in January or then in May Mhmm. While we're still respecting the order of the courses. And there was a question too about what if I understood correctly, will this be available afterwards? Yes. They're recording this. So I don't see any more questions in here in the chat. Thank you very much once again, Sharon. Thanks for Sure. For your time and for, for sharing your experience here. And thank you to all of those who participated virtually. And prayers for those who are taking classes? Or Yes. If you need to take that leap, go for it. Yes.

54:37And let's end with a prayer and a quick blessing here. In the name of the father and of the son and of the holy spirit. Amen. All glory be to the father and to the son and to the holy spirit. As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen. Thank you. And may the lord bless you and keep you. May he let his face shine upon you and be with you. May he be gracious to you and give you peace. And may the blessing of almighty god, the father and the son and the holy spirit descend upon you and remain with you forever. Amen. Alright. God bless you all. Thank you. Thank you, father. God bless you. Good night. Bye.