SDC Webinar and Q&A Session with student Amanda Zurface

0:05Alright. Well, let's get started. Welcome everybody to the Divine Mercy University spiritual direction certificate presentation. I'm glad to see that you're all here. My name is Greg Shapiro. I'm the admissions adviser here at DMU, and I will specifically for the spiritual direction certificate program or SDC for short. I've been with the university for almost three years now. I was enrolling for the master's in psychology program previously. And then as of last year, I I switched over to to SDC, and I I really enjoy it. Just the ability to have conversations with different people that are called to this ministry. Just the ability to talk about our faith and, really how God calls all of us and and helping the students out and starting their journey.

1:01So with me today is Amanda Serfis. She is an active student here at DMU. She's wrapping up her program, and I don't wanna step on your toes, Amanda. If you'd like to share a little bit about yourself, that'd be great. Thank you, Greg. Hello, everyone. It's good to be here with you. Quite the joy, actually, to be able to share some of my experience with you of the program, which has been such a joy. Again, my name is Amanda Zervis. I am an active canon lawyer for the church, and I felt called to be formed as a spiritual director as well. I'm active actively serving as a spiritual director currently, and I also serve as the Catholic outreach specialist for Covenant Eyes, a company that helps men and women with Internet pornography struggles.

1:54So, I love the church, and I'm just excited to talk about this this offering and the the great depth and richness of spiritual direction for the church with you tonight. Excellent. Well, thanks again for being with us, Amanda. So just a heads up to everybody. There's a chat section and a q and a section. Amanda and I are just gonna share with you all about the program. We're gonna go over the details, and Amanda is gonna share her experience in the program so you can get a good sense of what to expect if you decided that you'd like to proceed. But we're gonna open up this room for all questions that you may have, whether it's about the program, any questions for Amanda as a student, what to expect, as well as questions for me just as far as the university and how to get started.

2:45So, again, it's the chat section, the q and a section. We're here to answer those questions for you. So to just to kick stuff off, Amanda, I'd love to just cover a few things with you. So in your words, how would you describe what spiritual direction is? This is a very maybe a a broad term for some people. They might imagine one thing or another. But just as a spiritual director in your activity in ministry, how would you describe what spiritual direction is? So I'm so happy you were starting with this question because it's kind of a mystery. Right? Especially when you haven't been in a program and you're just exploring it, and we've all had different experiences of spiritual direction in general.

3:33And I have to say, that before starting the certificate, I had somewhat of a different understanding of spiritual direction, especially compared to what I've come to know it as now. So and I have to say it's been many years of building up to what I've come to understand it, as today, and the DMU program has really been key in this understanding. So just to kinda give spiritual direction a definition, for us this evening, we can look at spiritual direction, as a sacred practice of walking with a person of faith, either a man or a woman, as really God transforms their heart and mind. So it's a sacred practice, but it's also a discipline practice of listening and watching for God's movements in in a directee's life.

4:26And so in spiritual direction, a director, a spiritual director really tries to draw out what God is doing in a person's life. And so the person is better able to recognize and respond to the Lord and what he's really revealing to that person. And this is ongoing. The director is constantly trying to redirect the directee to his or her relationship with the Lord. Yeah. That's that's great. I one of the students that I spoke with in a previous cohort, he was here for, for his first residency. And I remember he used an analogy, and his analogy was, spiritual direction is two people walking through a dark room. And it's the director that has the lantern, and he's the one shining at different areas.

5:21And he's there just making observations saying, you know, look at this, you know, that sort of thing. And and it's the direct the excuse me, the directee's job to, just to see what's being shown to him, but to apply it in a way that will help him find his way into the light. And I thought that was such a good simple analogy, and it it really seems to be exactly sort of how you described with this sort of sojourning between two two individuals. That's a beautiful analogy, and it's true. You know, the director is there as an instrument for God to point the directee towards him. So it's not about the director at all. Right? It's all about inviting the directee deeper within to look to God for the answers and not to look to the directee for the answers where I think can be the confusion for us with looking at spiritual direction.

6:16We can oftentimes confuse it as counseling, but it's it's very different. And I, again, I love that analogy. Yeah. Yeah. And I also like how you you brought up how sometimes it's confused with counseling. Because I I think for a lot of people, especially students that I speak with when they're looking into this, they highlight their experience with a counselor. And, and I understand. It it makes sense because I think when you look at if you were to look at two different stills side by side, one is spiritual direction and the other is, a therapy session, they might look almost identical because it's two people sitting together, one is listening intently while the other is speaking, and the one listening is really the one sort of guiding the whole experience.

7:03So the it it makes a lot of sense why that this sort of overlap confusion can come up. But, but you're right. I mean, they're very different. They have very different functions. And, for spiritual direction, like you said, it's really the the practice of helping guide someone in recognizing God in the day to day life. So yeah. Very good. Looks like we have one question. And by the way, I'm I'm glad these questions are coming in now. If any questions come up for you, for each of you here, feel free to share them. Laura asked, please clarify why, in what way an individual might need or want a spiritual director in lieu of a priest. So that's a good question. So in a I I suppose in addition to a priest, perhaps, Amanda, do you wanna do you wanna take a stab at that one?

8:03Absolutely. Yeah. I'd be happy to. Laura, thank you for this question. It's a great question. I get it often, so do my colleagues and my peers, my classmates. So, a spiritual director is all about, you know, you have the freedom to pick your spiritual director, and your spiritual director has the freedom to say yes or no to your inquiry to serve as your director. Right? So it's all about really the the choice and the call too. This is really you discern who your spiritual director is going to be, and it's really interesting how spiritual directors can come about in your life. Right? Oftentimes, it's quite providential, and it's around the timing of when you've been praying for a director or, it's just been stirring in you that, hey.

8:45I see this as a need, and I'm desiring deeper growth with you, Lord. Can you send somebody to me? And so the church allows for and encourages men and women, laity and clergy to be formed as spiritual directees or spiritual directors. I'm sorry. And so priests, they have a very particular formation in the priesthood. Right? They have extensive training and formation. And sometimes they are trained specifically in, spiritual direction techniques, and they have that formation. Others don't have a lot of intensive training in this area. They can certainly offer guidance in in the life of virtue and holiness. And guidance and, like we said, counseling can be quite different than what we're talking about here with spiritual direction and especially with the method that the spiritual direction certificate through DMU trains directees in.

9:43So a lot goes into this. So if you want a priest, it's it's part of discernment. Right? And then it's also about what the priest can offer by way of his formation with spiritual direction. Many times a priest will refer, individuals who come to him for to for spiritual direction to an actual trained, a spiritual director. Or, you know, depending on what the person needs, it may take place in the context of of confession, the counsel that he provides. But, again, counsel versus what type of spiritual direction direction we're talking about this evening is actually different. Yeah. I I'm I'm so glad, Laura, that you asked that question, Amanda. Thank you for for sort of unfolding all of that.

10:36And it's such a good question too because so many people ask, and this is usually coming from laypeople where they say, am I qualified for this because I'm a layperson? I feel like this is really something only designed for those in in the priesthood or in the in the diaconate. And one thing that's interesting is, father Boniface Hicks, who he's the author of one of our textbooks, and he's a well known, priest, and he's also a spiritual director. I I heard him share, how spiritual direction really is in its in its essence a lay ministry. It began that way anyway. And, so this is something that goes back to the desert fathers who are laypeople. And so spiritual direction is very much of a lay ministry, though there are a lot of priests who are very active in this ministry as well.

11:36For some people, they love having priests as their spiritual directors. There's something to meeting with one and and also having that spiritual director as as his or her confessor. And for others, it's very helpful to have a a layperson, maybe speaking with someone that's in a very similar, vocation as as they are. And so that's, I think, a good reason why God calls for so many different people to serve in this ministry. So, yeah, great question. I'm so glad this was asked. And it looks like we have another question. And so Stacy asked, what would you estimate for the total cost of the program from start to finish trying to figure this out in our family budget? Thank you. Stacy, that's a very good question.

12:26We're gonna cover that, as we continue down because I know that cost and time frame are very important. So hang on to that question. We're gonna definitely go over that because I also, by the way, wanna go over ways on how we can save money for students in different ways of of, making that possible. So good question. Yeah. Amanda, I have more to talk about with you. So one thing, can you share a little bit about your experience with the cohort model? Because this is an online program, and it's it's asynchronous as well. But you're still working with with other students. You're working alongside a class. So could you share a little bit about your experience with that? Yeah. So as we all know, especially through our COVID experience, we need community.

13:19Right? We we thrive off of relationships and people, and it's so important to the way we learn and the way we thrive. So, this is no different. With this, certificate, we are blessed with what's referred to as a cohort, or I suppose you could also say classmates. Right? And so when you sign up for the certificate and if you don't skip a semester, you'll have the same classmates throughout the program. So you'll meet one another first by way of written introductions, during through the way that we have everything set up on it's called is it called Canvas? I'm blanking on our our platform. That's right. There's a actual platform for our program for a actual platform for our program for our program, and we get access to one another.

14:10We have a digital, platform to be able to communicate and receive our assignments. So the first way we meet one another is digital, and then it moves into Zoom sessions where, we officially meet and share and eventually practice as spiritual directors and directees, with one another. We're assigned vignettes that that we practice, and that's kind of our really first experience of using the method, with another person, with other people. So, those that's our initial introduction with one another. And then we have two on sites. And during those on sites, which I found are really crucial to the learning experience and really the overall formation of this program, you practice one with one another in group settings.

15:00So, again, you're there with your cohort at both of the on sites and you practice in person. And that may sound a little intimidating, but I found it that it's truly key for growing into the director role. And as you end the near as you end the program, you're signed up for supervision, which includes, a head supervisor, which is a professor, and three or four other classmates where you present spiritual direction sessions. Again, you receive feedback and have the opportunity to really explore, your own feelings and emotions from the session that you presented. So it's very helpful. And oftentimes, more helpful is when your classmates present their own spiritual direction sessions. So overall, the cohort you are in is very much a part of your formation and learning, and there's lots of opportunities, for interaction with them that happens during the class and also outside of the class.

16:03You really establish relationships as you would in school, at any other academic program that you have probably been a part of, and you become friends and you become colleagues. And these relationships are really important even for after, the program because you need that ongoing support and encouragement and even referrals, for professional needs. Yeah. Wow. And this is I'm glad you brought up all of that because that's that's a I think for a lot of students looking into this and misunderstanding as well as far as the fact that it's online. So many of them think that this is something that they do completely on their own, but, there really is camaraderie between between the students. They're working as a team.

16:50And the residencies, and I'm gonna ask you more about that. I wanna die I wanna do a deep dive into that too. But it's interesting seeing the students come to campus for the first time with their cohorts for the residencies because when they see each other and they they connect, it's not like they're extending their hand and saying, and and who are you? And, oh, okay. I'm so and so. They're these are folks that know each other already. They're just seeing each other for the first time in person, but that camaraderie has existed beforehand. So it's very interesting seeing them say, oh, it's great to see you, John. Oh, it's great to see you you, Jane, in in the flesh. Yeah. It's a it's a really good sort of support that the students have with one another.

17:38So speaking of the residencies, by the way, Amanda, what was it like for you, what were the residencies like for you as far as the first time or maybe the second time? Just your general take on what what that was like. And you mentioned that it was key, but maybe you can if there's a little bit more that you'd like to share, that would be great. Absolutely. So, not to confuse anybody. I was actually referring to the residencies as on-site. So, you can ignore that or just recognize that that's what I was talking about. So I was referring to the residency. Sorry for any confusion. You know, I'd have to say, like, any online program, if you've never been to the university, the campus is kind of a mystery.

18:26Right? So it was a little nerve wracking, and also exciting to go to our first residency. We received, again, like I said, we received a lot of great information. We had daily mass and a and confession available to us, and we also had, community meals. And and really importantly, we had all the expert teachers on-site all week with us. You feel actually very cared for and quite spoiled. So you're receiving the best of the best in the the spiritual direction world to to be formed. And you even yourself, you experience a bit of a conversion and a deepening, because so much of this journey is of you and God too. You know? This isn't just about your directees. This is also about your own formation and growth and relationship with God, which feeds your ministry.

19:26And so the residencies are really, life giving in that way. They're almost like mini retreats, I guess you could say. And so at the first on-site, you've like Greg said, you finally get to meet your cohort. And, just it's there's a lot of emotions. You know? You laugh together. You cry together. You're embarrassed together. You're really stretched. And just so it's again, a lot of growth happens at the on sites. And because this is where you finally get to apply in person what you've been learning and getting, and getting really solid feedback on, you know, you get to do this again in person and how to grow in the spiritual direction method that we have been learning online. This all happens in person, and so it's it's exciting.

20:19The the second on-site is even better than the first, I would say, because you you've already experienced the nerves, that come, you know, that come with something new, and you've already developed and established relationships with your cohort. So the second residency kind of feels more like a reunion in a sense. And the content of the second residency is even more rich because you've grown more, and you have new questions to ask, and you have new fears and joys to share as well. And, overall, you're more experienced and excited about what's to come. You're getting even closer to finishing the certificate and being of service to to mother church. Yeah. Excellent. We have a lot of questions coming in.

21:11I wanna make sure we can get to all of them. These are all great. So Jackie asked she she said, Amanda, how do you discern who you take on in spiritual direction? This is a great question, Jackie. So, actually, the program itself, the certificate program helps you to learn how to do that, which is such a blessing and a gift because it can be overwhelming. And so, what the program recommends is meeting with the person who has reached out to you about direction for thirty minutes, you know, just to see if if it's a good fit and to see what they're looking for and for you to explain the method that that you're offering. And then you can both discern after that thirty minute session with one another if if this is the best, next step.

22:01And, again, knowing that you have freedom and the director has freedom on how to move forward. Also, you have an intake form that's given to you by the DMU, staff. The program itself provides an intake form that helps you get to know the directee and see their background, their history, where they're coming from. Many of the the tools that you'll learn and the the methods that you'll learn in this program is how to identify, needs of the psychological versus the spiritual, and that is really significant when deciding, who you take on as a directee. And that's all explored in this program, and it's it's a really key, and and significant, learning. It's something something that you really need to be equipped with as you head into this this, field of of ministry.

22:56Yeah. Excellent. And, one question Stacy asked, and I'd be happy to answer this one for you, Stacy. Are the residencies only in Virginia? That's a very good question. So the residencies are located here in Sterling, Virginia. So we're about a five minute drive from Dulles Airport. I live in DC, so it's about a it takes me about forty minutes more or less to get from home to the campus. So, hopefully, that gives you an idea of where we're located. But the residencies are located on-site on campus. And, as Amanda mentioned, they happen twice in the program. So just to give you an idea, the first one happens during your third term. That's about more or less ten months from when you start the program.

23:43And we make sure that the students know exactly when that is so that you can be prepared for it, let your family know, your employer know, whoever needs to know that you'll be traveling for those few days. And then the second one happens during the fifth term. And, again, we make sure that the students know the the dates. And if students can't make the residencies, a a specific week, let's say, because it falls on maybe a wedding you need to get to or there's a scheduled surgery, students can certainly take a leave of absence if that's needed. I only ever encourage doing it, for a reason, but they're there because life does happen. We wanna make sure that, you can tend to your life while while at the same time being able to complete your program.

24:29So, anything that you'd like to add to that, Amanda? No. I think that was good. Okay. Good. Let's see. We have another question from Lisa. And Lisa asked, what made you decide to choose DMU over other programs? So it's all about discernment. Right? And it's all about relationships when it comes to our our choices and God's, navigating us. So I, have been active in the theology of the body institute, which many of you have maybe heard of with Christopher West, and they have a strong relationship with the Divine Mercy University certificate program because their staff many of their staff have been trained, through DMU's program, which is quite the gift, to be able to be of service in that way.

25:21And so I learned about DMU through the theology of the body institute, and I, learned that it was a trusted program, an orthodox program. And I just started to look into what the offering was, and I noticed just how well structured it was. It's accredited. It's, and it's just it's a really a really reliable and and strong, offering, and so are the other programs though too. You know, there's a really strong relationship between DMU and the other spiritual direction, programs. So I would have to say if you're questioning what program to join, explore all of them. And Maria Brackett, who is, just a great, resource at DMU and also Greg, they'll help you in the process of deciding what's the best fit for you.

26:17Yeah. And I'll I'll even add to that because that that's such a good question. A lot of students do ask me, what what makes this program so so unique? Why why would I choose this one versus others? Because we're not the only spiritual direction certificate out there. There are there are others that exist. And for many of them, they have different spiritualities connected to them. And and by that, I mean, there might be one that's way more nation based, and then there might be one that's much more, perhaps Carmelite influenced. But within this program, there's there is Ignatian influence. Saint John of the Cross is a large influence in the program. Saint Francis is as well. But that that psychology component built into this is a very powerful one because we wanna train students on how to be solid spiritual directors while at the same time having some some foundational knowledge on human development and how that relates within the context of spiritual direction.

27:20As spiritual directors, you may end up working with people that they might be carrying around a trauma. Maybe they're battling some sort of mental health difficulties. And so we we do want to equip the students, of course, not to try to be their their therapist, but how to recognize that and speak to that with gentleness, with empathy as the spiritual director, and also if necessary, how to properly refer them to a therapist if that that healing is needed. So that's a great question, Lisa. I'm glad you asked that. There's another question by Lisa, and she said, are the professors priests? And that's a good question. So some of them are. We have some faculty members that are active in the priesthood, and and we also have some laypeople.

28:08Amanda, I don't know if you wanna add to that question or not, but, all the faculty that I speak with are I'm just impressed by them. The the people that have created this program, some of them are are licensed clinicians, and some of them have been active in in their priest priestly vocation for many years, but, it's just a great, great faculty. Yeah. So, Lisa, that's a great question. So two of my main formators at Divine Mercy were priests, in fact, and excellent, excellent, teachers and leaders in the program itself. So you can be assured there is a previously presence, which is a great gift, of course. And then also, we have consecrated virgins who are also instructors and lay men and women who are are married.

28:59So we have the variety of vocations that bring forth a great, knowledge and the the truth of of the church, the wealth, and the richness of our teachings of our faith. And all of these men and women are Catholics in good standing and have come vetted, and they have the backgrounds and the formation to be able to stand in the place as of instructors and formators. So you can be assured that these men and women are, are in good standing and are endorsed, to be able to to do this and to lead, the formation program. So great question. Yeah. Very good. So Michael asked, once we become a spiritual director, do you only direct Catholics? How about non Catholic Christian non or non Christian people?

29:53Michael, that's a very good question. So, you know, I'll start by just highlighting, and, Amanda, maybe you can add on a little bit more to that. Just as the admissions adviser, I work with a lot of students, and many of them do come from the Catholic tradition. Many of them are active within their Catholic faith. And I also work with a lot of students admitting them and and enrolling them through the process, who are non Catholic Christians that are active in ministry. So whether they're Eastern Orthodox or they are, evangelical or or Anglican or nondenominational. What they all have in common is this love for God and this love to serve others and helping direct others deeper into their Christian faith.

30:40And and we we categorize this program as being a Catholic Christian program. While this does come from the Catholic tradition, it's very rich within within the the church history. It's also something that a lot of, a lot of our our Protestant and Orthodox brothers and sisters are very active in as well. And so this is something that we we love to invite them into the program, and, it's always just a joy having whether it's Catholics or or non Catholic Christians in this program as well. And and that also means offering direction to, to others that may or may not be Catholic. So, again, the the really, the the main purpose of it is helping someone recognize God a little bit deeper and helping them grow deeper in their faith and recognizing what he's communicating to them.

31:39Amanda, anything you'd like to add to that? Yeah. I think it's important going back to what kind of method that DMU trains directors in, and I think this will help one of the questions I think also asked about methods. So the method that DMU forms spiritual directors in is called contemplative evocative method, and it's really a nonhierarchical approach to spiritual direction. So in layman's terms, this approach, you don't look to the director for answers. You are in the session. You look to God. And, again, it's all about the director pointing the directee back to God and just ongoing. It's it's just an ongoing, process. And you do that through deepening and validating and evoking, and there's all these skills that you're trained in in order to be able to do this.

32:34And so why that's important is that this method is, again, very much about pointing the directee back to God, not looking to the director for answers. Right? You're looking to God. You're going into the interior. So this spiritual direction method is not a catechetical method. Right? So the sessions aren't intended for catechesis per se, which I think is really helpful in regards to, can I take on a non Catholic as a spiritual directee? The session is not intended for catechesis of the Catholic faith per se. Right? It's very much intended to guide the relationship to a deeper level to be able to better listen to God and his promptings. Now if there's an opportunity for catechesis, what we learn in the program is that you really have to draw the line of when spiritual direction is taking place versus catechesis or a referral.

33:33So there's just really intentional communication that has to take place. And all these skills are taught in this program, which I found and have found to be a great blessing and something I was struggling navigating with before I was trained by DMU, and I can't recommend it enough. Very good. So, you know, I know that questions on cost and and time commitment, these are big ones. And I think these are probably the biggest deciding factors for a lot of students. So maybe we can do a little bit of a dive into that, and And, hopefully, that will, answer a lot of your questions and maybe spark more questions, on top of that. So looking at this and I think it's helpful to talk about the time commitment before we go into the, into the cost because there's actually a little bit of relation there, and I'll explain why.

34:29So the the program itself, it's a two year program. And so the way this works is that there are six courses that you're taking in total. You're taking three courses per, excuse me, per academic year. So in other words, you're taking one course per eight week term. And along with that, usually and this isn't really set in stone. And, Amanda, you might even, have some have something to say on top of this. But on average, just more of a pattern that we see, students are committing somewhere between, six hours to maybe nine or ten hours per week. I think it could depend on the student. It might depend on the course they're taking. It could depend on the week. But the courses are built in a way that would take roughly amount around this amount of time.

35:24And we we do it also just to make it more accessible to students, especially for those that do work a full time job. Maybe they have a busy home life or whatever it might be. So I would keep that in mind to all the all of you who are here learning about this. I would suggest looking at your own schedule, seeing if maybe being on the conservative side, if nine or ten hours per week could be doable for you. It might mean shifting a few things here and there. But also keep in mind that the program really is designed to be primarily asynchronous. So we do it this way also to make it accessible so that you can, log in to your classes at a time that works for you. You can log in early or late at night, just making it a little bit more fit within your current schedule.

36:17Amanda, since I'm asking or I'm I'm talking about the time commitment per week, does that seem to check out with you? Did you have any sort of thoughts on your experiences as far as the time you were putting in per week for for each class? Yeah. I think it's different per class. Right? So the intensity is different per each class just based on on the topics and especially as you near the end of the program. You guys may remember me mentioning at the beginning that there are Zoom calls that take place with your cohort, right, with your classmates. You're assigned different groups, for recording sessions and practicing. So it kind of fluctuates each week the the, intensity of the coursework based on if you have an additional video that you need to film and notes that you need to take in writing, that you have to submit.

37:09So it can fluctuate, and I think, you kinda learn that as you go through the program and you kinda get a pattern and start to understand, okay. This type of assignment will take me this long. You start to learn yourself and also the the way that the assignments are structured as well. So but I would say the average, that you mentioned, Greg, is is pretty accurate. And but, again, it just depends on the individual and how you learn. There's audio, visual, resources, so lots of videos to be able to learn. There's reading, and there's also suggested reading that's not required. So it depends on how motivated you are and how much time you have and if you wanna read the extra material. So that would add to your week and and the intensity of it.

38:07I you know, since you mentioned the the extra material one could read, I will highlight too, and this is continuing on with the discussion of of the time commitment of the program. Between each course, there are breaks, and they're helpful for a number of reasons. And I'll I'll go over each one. But one thing that whenever I speak with students about these, a lot of them share how they do the extra reading during these periods. There's a little bit more of a a time where they can take a step back and reflect on the content they've been learning, but then also they can use that time to read the, the other chapters that are not required so that they can get extra context to what they've been going what they've been been been learning in the program.

38:57But the other benefits this pro or to these these breaks, and I'll talk about how long these breaks are, they're very helpful in that the the major holidays happen during these periods. So with Thanksgiving and Christmas week and holy week and Easter week, whenever these come up, that means that you're in a down period. So you're you're not having to juggle, you know, celebrating these times while at the same time submitting assignments. You can just focus on these celebratory moments. But, also, it it's helpful for students financially. It's a pay as you go program. We're gonna look at the cost in just a moment. But the great thing about the time the time frame of the breaks is that on the short end, it's about six weeks, and on the long end, it's about nine or ten weeks.

39:51It just depends on where it falls in the academic calendar. But they're pretty pretty substantial breaks, so it gives students a little bit of a chance to come up for air to breathe, to replenish their funds, and to prepare for their next course. So that's one of the other benefits of of these breaks taking place. Let's see. Why don't we I know that there are more questions. I I really appreciate all these questions coming in. We're gonna get to these. One of the questions that's been hanging on here is related to the cost. So let's look at that for just a moment. And, I will preface something that the cost per course that you're looking at, each course is 800. There is room to reduce it. What I'd wanna do is have a one on one conversation with each of you to understand, sort of what your circumstances in life, and we can talk about if you benefit for tuition reduction, and how that works.

40:55But, before any sort of tuition reduction and by the way, it's very common in in order to get that, so I don't want you to feel like it's only offered to just a couple of people. There's it it can be very doable. But on before any of that, the cost per course is 800. And then the cost per residency is 1,100. And that's, you know, again, these are the two residences that happen on campus. And that 1,100 will cover your lodging. It'll cover, your materials. It'll cover most of your meals. So the only out of pocket expense would be your travel, and then students are also responsible for for three of their dinners, while they're here for the four day residencies. But overall, before any, again, before any sort of tuition reduction, the total cost would be, 7,000 for the entire two year program.

41:56Now, again, students are only paying course by course. You're not expected to pay the whole lump sum, but rather you're what happens is students are invoiced about I think it's about two or three weeks before each class. And then, from the point of being invoiced, they have a thirty day window to pay that balance. So so students can pay it, that full amount with when they're invoiced or if they wanted to pay it in smaller increments as long as it's within that thirty day window, they're certainly welcome to do that. And let's see. We have another question. Actually, quite a few, and I wanna make sure I can get to each one. These are very good. Lisa asked to to you, Amanda. Would you please touch on oh, I'm sorry.

42:48That's I'm looking at the wrong one. We have so many. I'm just scrolling up. Bear with me one moment. Let me get to Ariel. Ariel, does this program provide a pathway to be able to become a deacon? So this would not be a a program related to going into the diaconate. If you're part of the, part of a diocese, you'd wanna get in touch with them. If this related to, something outside in maybe a nondenominational circle, you'd wanna either way get in touch with your church or within your diocese. But rather, this is a very good complimentary program for those that are in the diaconate. We do have a lot of deacons that are active in this program because, for so many of them, they work with individuals, and it's it's they wanna gain this additional knowledge on how they can help work with people one on one and guiding them closer to God.

43:44So that's a great question, Ariel. Very good. Let's see. I'm just scrolling up. So many of you are asking great questions. Okay. We talked about time commitment. Okay. So, if any other questions are coming up, please feel free to bring them in here. Amanda, I'll I'll throw out a couple more questions at you. So let's see. We talked about the residencies, but how have you been able to make time for this program? I mean, you mentioned that you're active as as a Canon lawyer. You're active with, CovenantEyes, and now you're getting involved with, spiritual direction. You're working with many different directees. So just with all of your responsibilities, how did you find making that time to be able to do the program while still having a a lot of other responsibilities as well?

44:46So, I have to be honest, and I will be very honest that, you know, it has been a challenge completing this program, and I just share that in all transparency. And that can be based on my own discipline and and the the heaviness of of daily work, right, and involvement in your parish and diocese. But everybody's experience is gonna be a little different. You know? I have a full time job, and I am active. So there have been just a lot of sacrifices involved, with both time. And, also, as you guys have seen with finances, you know, everybody comes from a different situation, but there are, sacrifices involved. And, that's just the reality, you know, as we discern, certain opportunities in life.

45:33So at the beginning of the program, I have to say that many of the assignments, just being very practical, were due on Saturdays in the afternoon. And then as we got closer to the end of the program, assignments were due by midnight on Tuesday. So I just really had to identify times when I could read and complete the the written assignments. And, also, many assignments included scheduling Zoom sessions like we talked about with different classmates. So that involved just really identifying dates and times that work for everybody. So, again, a sacrifice, right, and trying having to be flexible, to be able to be of service to your classmates too. So, that's just something to be aware of. So it gets hard, but, again, it does come down to just gift of self and persevering in God's will if this is his invitation to you to serve in this way, to give of yourself in this way.

46:36There were a few classes, again, where I really struggled with getting assignments in in on time, and I know I had other classmates who struggled too. And I just have to say that the the professors recognize that we have lives, that we are serving in lots of different roles. Again, my classmates were priests, deacons, moms, dads of little kids, big kids. You know, just everybody had different vocations. And that's, again, one of the the blessings of this program is to be in that environment. And another blessing is just how understanding, the professors are, and they really want to set you up for success. So they're patient, they're encouraging, and they they help you, achieve make be successful in the program.

47:28So I hope that helps. Yeah. And I'll also just to add to that too, I I always tell students if there's any question about the, any sort of commitments that you have and just making this doable to always get in touch with your instructor, to get in touch with the university, instead of making the assumption that it won't work or that you have to bypass this program. If there's anything we can do to make it possible for you, as long as it's within our capability, we'll certainly, work with you on that. I'll even give a very quick example in that we had a a student who was starting the program last year. This was, last fall. She was getting ready to start, and she, she reached out to me via email and said, Greg, I think I need to defer because, because I'm taking my daughter to college the same week that that class starts, and I feel like it won't be present.

48:32And so I reached back out to her, and I I thanked her for letting me know. And I I asked her, were you able to get in touch with your instructor about this? And she said, no. I just figured it probably wouldn't do any good. And I said, well, go ahead and get in touch with her. If if we need to defer you, it's an option. But reach out to her just to let her know, just so that I think it's a good opportunity for you to introduce yourself. But, reach out to her, and and there may be something we can do. And if not, we'll defer you. But, anyway, she did. And she reached back out to me, two days later and said, I'm so glad I did that. The instructor's giving me, early access to the content, so that I can work ahead.

49:17And so that way, I can now take my daughter to work, but still having all of my assignments queued up to send to her. So, again, it's just one example. It's always case by case, but I just wanted to use that as an example that we are happy to help wherever we can. And and life does happen. But and in some cases, it means making sacrifices. But also we're here to do whatever we can to help the student. So great. And, we have another question. I know that we're getting close to the top of the hour, but I wanna make sure we can answer all of these. Maybe we can do a quick speed, speed round. Lisa asked, as a teacher in k through eighth grade Catholic school, I teach religion to the junior high students.

50:05I love kids. As a spiritual direction director, could we offer direction to kids? Amanda, would you like to answer that one? Yeah. I'd be happy to. So I think, again, it's important to differentiate between spiritual direction and spiritual guidance. Right? Spiritual accompaniment. So there's really particular goals. And I think you also have to look at the age of reason. How old is the child as well as taking into consideration safe environment policies. So often, you know, with spiritual direction, it's a one on one relationship. So that's really important to consider. And, also, the goal of spiritual direction is deeper intimacy and, also, deepening in the theological virtues too. So there's a real maturity that takes place.

50:51So there's just lots of things to consider, but I would recommend to not and to wait to for the age of 18 to make sure that, you know, just everybody is safe and protected and also that the the goals of spiritual direction is is followed. And but I know, again, Maria and the staff at DMU could offer you guidance on that, but I would I would encourage, also talking to your safe environment office about policies regarding that as well. But, Greg, do you have anything else to add to that? Yeah. I mean and and I think you answered that perfectly well. And and I offering guidance to kids and helping them with their faith formation is extremely important. And, Lisa, I I'm so glad that you have this heart for for kids and wanting to be a a shepherd to them.

51:42I mean, that's really the right attitude to have. And like Amanda mentioned, it's really sort of a it's really distinguishing the different types of ministries that are out there. And one thing I would certainly suggest doing is get in touch with your diocese, regarding spiritual direction and maybe even just ask them point blank point point blank, excuse me, what age they would suggest you work with someone as far as how will the directory should be in order for them to to work with you as the director. I always tell students, get in touch with your diocese, ask them about their criteria. They have this sort of thing prepared to answer, and, I would certainly suggest doing that. But I think Amanda answered it perfectly well.

52:35And, Lisa, I I just to highlight, I really appreciate the fact that you're you're looking at the formation for for the youth as well. That's very important. Let's see. And we have a couple other questions. Laura asked, describe assignments. Will we be will we be writing papers? If so, are they analyses, reflections, reports, book reviews, etcetera? Amanda, maybe you can answer a little bit of that for her. Yeah. Laura, great question. It's always nice to know what you're getting into. Right? So a lot involves reading and also sharing insights from the reading to your classmates and responding to what your classmates insights have been. So that's at the beginning of the the program. I would say that's a lot of that.

53:25Then it goes into Zoom sessions with your classmates and doing vignettes. So practicing what you've been learning through the readings and through the video instructions, and then reflecting on those Zoom sessions that you've done with your classmates and responding to questions that have been posed to you about those Zoom calls and, very particular questions to get you to think deeper and, how you're growing, what your questions are, where you're struggling. So a lot has to do with reflection. There's also prayer journaling. There's also encouragement to be meeting with your own spiritual director. None of that, of course, is shared, you know, but there's the encouragement to be doing that as along with the program itself.

54:15And there are papers. Yeah. So at the end of the courses, there are, reflection papers. Again, not big theses, PCs, I think is how you'd say that you would be expected to write, but you're certainly summarizing what you have learned and where you're at spiritually. Because, again, a lot of this is about your own growth through the program and where where you're at as a human person in relationship with God. Yeah. Very good. You also asked a question. I can answer that very quickly. You said, is there a point person we can be in touch with to help guide us in our making the decisions and helping us, helping this to be a reality based in getting to this goal? So, you know, certainly, as far as, discernment, if you're still praying about this, continue doing it.

55:07The first three courses are are also designed to help folks who are still in their discernment phase. So and we still have students that enter into this program as they're trying to navigate the right ministry for them. And the fruits of those programs certainly overlap with many different ministries as well. But as far as the enrollment process, my this would be me. You would you would be in touch with me. I'm here to help you. My contact information is on the screen. Feel free to take a picture of it or, screen screen grab it if you can. But it's right here. And, you know, again, what I'd like to do for each of you is if this is something that you're looking into, I wanna have a one on one conversation with you just so I can get to know you as a student, to learn about what you're looking for in a program, and to answer all of your questions.

55:57And then if you decide that you'd like to apply, I'll help you out through throughout the entire process. I love doing that. I love making this a a achievable goal for students. And, again, I mean, we have a start date coming up, by the way, on August 23. That's gonna be the start of our fall term, and there's still room. We're still enrolling students. We only have a few more interviews. So if you're looking into this and you'd like to start in the fall, now would be your time to put your your foot on the gas a little bit harder, but we can make this possible. So feel free to contact me. You're welcome to email me. You can call me. You can text me, whatever works for you. And I'd love to, again, have that conversation with you.

56:44I think that should probably bring us to the end. Amanda, anything that you'd like to add to just to share with the students? Anything you'd like to say to them as we have them here? No. I just, you know, I wanna thank you for your time, for your interest in serving the church in this way, for your love for God and love for his people. And, again, you know, lean into Greg, lean into the materials that really articulate well what this program is, and I just encourage you to bring, joining the certificate program to discernment. And don't be afraid to ask God what he desires for you. Just be bold in your prayers and be upfront about what what you're seeking. So God bless all of you and and your next steps.

57:29Yeah. Excellent. Amanda, thank you so much for being with us. Absolutely. Thank you, Greg. Alright. Thank you all for being here. God bless. Take care.