SDC Webinar May 1st

0:06So good evening. So I don't like to make this webinar last more than forty five minutes. And, basically, what I try to do is, divide it in between an explanation, of the program and just allowing you know, opening up for questions that you might have. Every you know, people come with different understandings of what a spiritual direction program might do or what it entails. So I always like to live a good amount of time for our questions, but I don't wanna go over forty five minutes. And if we really see that we don't have questions, of course, I'll always cut things short. But let's so let's get started. So good to have you here. My name is Maria Brackett. I'm the director of the spiritual direction certificate at Divine Mercy University and a spiritual director myself.

1:00I've been a director of the program now for five years, began in 2020, and I've been a spiritual director for about eighteen. I I I worked ministry full time. I studied theology. I studied, education. Now I'm actually getting my master's in mental health and just felt drawn to this. I'm working in ministry kinda just felt fell into this niche of giving spiritual direction and accompany people in this way. It's been a real joy for me. I'm a learner by nature, so always learning more. And I'm fascinated with the human person, just learning more about the gift of who each person is. So that's a little bit about me. I live right in here, Virginia, right next to the university. So the spiritual direction certificate is a certificate, two year certificate created by the Divine Mercy University to train spiritual directors to be in a professional way, in a way that they form their heart to be more a heart like Jesus so as to accompany people and help them to know the Lord.

2:26We the university, as you may have seen or know, is dedicated to the an an understanding of the human person. Right? The which is a holistic model. Sometimes it's called that, an integrated model, where we look at the whole person and all their different aspects from a faith perception from a faith perspective, but also from from a science perspective. The university is a graduate school for psychologists and counselors and decided in 2016 to begin developing this course so as to give so as to help train spiritual directors with this vision of the whole person. And that vision of the whole person is taken from Catholic theology, the wisdom tradition of Catholic theology, and Catholic philosophy.

3:30And also sound, principles that that go with Catholics cycle Catholic theology and philosophy and integrating them with the with the human sciences. So that's really what is at the center of the university, and the university continues to develop programs and degrees that allow people to get to understand the human person. It's all its riches within the Catholic Christian tradition and, and marry that with science, with the best of science and research. So, you know, people always ask me, what is it about the spiritual direction certificate that might be different than getting trained somewhere else? Well, I think that there's a certain, taste that we give to spiritual direction training because we really like you to learn, first of all, of course, and most of all about the working of god's grace in a person.

4:37But we like to you also for you to learn who that person is and to understand yourself a little bit better and in in your human functioning. We don't spend time going into a lot of psychological concepts. Of course, we're not training you as counselors or psychologists, nor even do we think that spiritual director is is a type of light therapy. It's really very different. Therapy is really, geared at helping us in our human functioning, whereas spiritual direction is to help but encourage us to grow in our relationship with the lord. So that gets us right into, you know, what is spiritual direction? I think this is important to talk about when you're presenting a spiritual direction, training program.

5:25There even though the Catholic tradition and the Christian tradition, have a very clear understanding of it, there are very different interpretations out there. And so our definition of spiritual direction as a company meant as helping someone in their pilgrimage to go up toward God and as a as something that actually helps them in their formation in mission and and, you know, almost like disciples forming disciples or disciples helping to teach to you know, sometimes they say disciples discipling others. Right? A lot of spiritual direction has to do with that. Deep listening has a very important part in our spiritual direction program because we feel like that is the environment that needs to happen in spiritual direction.

6:14A deep listening to the lord by both the director and the directee and a deep listening of the directee by the director. So learning how to listen well and learning how to listen to what might be going on inside of that person and where what we say the voice of the good shepherd and the voice of the thief. And also kind of those human emotions that might be happening to understand just where the Lord might be present there. And, the deep listening that also leads to questions that allows the person to open their heart more and allows the person to walk into their heart and and encounter the lord and listen better, you know, or more clearly to what the lord might be saying. Giving that person a real trust trustful, you know, confiding confidential relationship where they they can feel safe and where they can open their heart.

7:16And all to to for them to be able to find the Lord and get in contact with him more. So it's a very prayerful environment, the way that we teach our students, and we train them as spiritual directors. It's not designed as therapy as but it's designed as walking with someone in their walk with the lord and to to help them and encourage them, support them, give them resources so that they can follow the Lord more closely. Know him, love him, follow him more closely as Saint Ignatius would tell us. So it's not therapy. It's not even catechesis or teaching. Although there could be moments of teaching in spiritual direction, really depends upon your background. You know, just because you're a spiritual director, you can't pontificate, not necessarily.

8:11But it's not the purpose of spiritual direction is not catechesis or teaching. That's really done in catechesis or in courses directed to teach you about the truths of the faith. No. Of the Christian faith. So it's really about, you know, offering listening perspective, with the person, not so much catechesis or teaching. And it's not really evangelization. Even though evangelization is a very noble ministry, about proclaiming the gospel. It you know, evangelization is the first proclamation, whereas spiritual direction is really for someone that has already been had the gospel proclaimed to them and wants to deepen in their walk with the Lord and get to know him better and and is willing to take up a spiritual life, you know, of moments to be with the Lord, a prayer in order to help them.

9:14Julia, thank you so much for your question, and thanks so much for raising your hand. I forgot to say this at the beginning. So if you do have any questions, please just put them in the q and a box, and I will look at them. As soon as I finish explaining the program, I will look at them, and I can answer them. Problem is I can't look at the q and a box while I have this screen up, so that's why we have to do it this way. So, Julie, if you can just put that into the, q and a box your question, then I'll answer it. Thanks so much. And please, other people, as you as we're going along and questions might come to you. Not gonna so what can you expect in the spiritual direction program? Well, it's a six course program.

10:04All of the courses are online. It's what we call asynchronous, which means that you don't have to connect for classes, and you do the work on your own time. It's not an online type of education where you're connecting for a class and getting the information. You actually are when you register, you're given access to a platform, and that platform has your course on it. Each course consists of eight weeks or eight modules. You work through the material together with your cohort. You respect those weekly deadlines of assignments, and, and that's how you move through the information. The teachers, especially in the first two courses, do hold, meetings. Those meetings are not obligatory. There is an assignment given, and you can complete the assignment.

11:03Everyone is given the same assignment, but there are two ways to complete it. You can complete it by, writing your essay and then going to the live discussion group, or you can complete it by writing an essay and then, listen to the recording. So that's what we mean by asynchronous. It's really can be done on your own time. It's minimum the amount of time that you have to get together even in the later courses. There are some triadic work where you get together with other students, but those, that's just you organizing your schedule with two other people. So it, the majority of the things are being in you are able to do on your own on your own time. There are two residency in the course. That means that these are two moments.

12:01One a year, You you do three courses a year. And those residencies occur here in Sterling, Virginia. They're four day. You arrive for a Wednesday evening, and you're done by Sunday lunch. And those residencies are part of the one residency happens at the end of the third course, and the other residency happens at the beginning of the fifth course. There's also a requirement of sixty practicum hours. You do the practicum hours. You start doing them in the fifth and the sixth course. So you start in the fifth course, and you have a total of two years from the time that you finish you start your third course to finish. So you've got a good amount of time, almost about six months to finish those practicum hours after you finish your courses.

12:57So those practicum hours are made up of forty eight hours of seeing people in spiritual direction and twelve hours of supervision. Those twelve hours of supervision are actually given in your fifth and your sixth course, and we give them to you as assignments. Your instructor does that supervision. So it's not like you're going you need to go find a supervisor. We do ask you to log those hours. We tell you how to do that, and, it's part of your completion. Another aspect also in the spiritual direction in order to graduate is to also do, an a spiritual ex Ignatius spiritual exercise experience of at least five days. If you've done it within two years of coming into the program, that also counts.

13:47We want you to have an experience of the Ignatian spiritual exercises. We think it's an important one. We also think it will help you as a spiritual director. These are the six courses. This information is also on our website. And in fact, on the website, the course descriptions are given there, a short paragraph about what each of the courses contain. So I plea I ask you to to visit divinemercy.edu and look for the spiritual direction certificate under the academics, academic programs, and you will find the course descriptions there. You'll see by the, just looking at this list right here that the course course courses really are about spiritual theology, this growth of grace in a person and how that works.

14:40That's really the spine of the program. And then intertwined in that is some about human development and human relationships as you see in that second course. And then the next element that's important is the training up yourself in those skills that you'll need as a spiritual director, and that's what you see in that 300 or that third course or that 500, that fifth course. Right? But the first course, that fourth course, that sixth course, you you see, that's, you know, this is where the the whole spine of trying to understand how a human person relates to grace and how that grace works in their human nature and helps them to become, more Christ like, transforms us, right, through that grace given to us that we so recently celebrated at Easter.

15:35And then the six horse, along with giving you that supervision sessions, is also about different situations that you might encounter in spiritual direction and, in helping you to kind of understand what that's like and how to listen for those different situations and and what to do, how to refer those people to other people that could help them, to understand, you know, what's within your competency and what isn't. So the residencies we spoke about, this is a this is a picture, a couple pictures taken from our residencies. As I said to you that there are two four day residencies on campus here in Sterling, Virginia. The university is very close to Dallas Airport, so it's very easy. In fact, we put you up in a hotel, and the hotel does a shuttle from the airport and back to the airport.

16:29So you don't even need a car. You could just take a plane and and and work that way. The university is about a five minute walk, really, not more than that, from the hotel, and so that's what students do. They walk back and forth. The residencies are moments to put in practice the skills and the knowledge that you're learning as a spiritual director and get coached by, faculty members. So the way that we set up the residencies is that they usually start with about an hour, an hour and a half of teaching in the morning, and then you break up into small groups. Every small group has a faculty member, and you work through scenarios or situations, and you're asked to take different roles and to practice your skills.

17:14As I said before, the first residency is at the end of the first third course and is an integral part of that course, and the second residency is at the beginning of the fifth course and is also an integral part of that course. You can't pass a course without passing a residency. They're they're put together. You need to be taking the residency and the course at the same time. So term based. Our courses aren't semester based. They're term based. So instead of being sixteen weeks, they're eight weeks. You only can take one course at a time, And usually, it requires about six to ten hours a week as far as your commitment between doing the readings, watching the videos, answering the different assignments.

18:08There's roughly a six to ten week break be between each term, and you can complete the certificate in two years. So it's a good rhythm. There are breaks that allows you to kind of have a life and can and while you're doing this. As well as, you know, sometimes those breaks are great times for people to gather some money together to continue paying for the certificate or to, you know, go back and read some of the things that they'd like to read or maybe do the retreat or different things like that. So we haven't had students complain about those breaks. That's for sure. So this is how the terms work when we talk about breaks. This is how our academic calendar works. We've got a spring term, a summer term, and a fall term.

19:02So you see there the active terms. So our spring term begins in early January and ends in early March. Our summer term begins in late May. In fact, we have a summer term beginning, this month on May 21, and I am still there are still some seats available for that term. So would be very happy to talk to anyone that's interested in that term, and it ends in mid July. The fall term begins in late August and ends in mid October. So those are the terms. And then on the other side, you see the column that talks about the breaks. So these are the times when you have breaks. You early March to late May. We don't have classes mid July to the late August, and we don't have classes from mid October to, ends in early January.

19:52Usually, we start classes when pretty much everyone else starts classes, which is, you know, when if you have kids, when they go back to school. Right? Not necessarily college because those they tend to go back a little bit later in January. So that's that's how the calendar works. This is the cost of the program. It is a pay as you go program. So that means that as you register for each of the courses, you pay for it. You don't have to pay any of this upfront. It's just as you register. So it's $800 per course, and the residencies are $13.50. These these prices will go up in the fall semester for the summer, courses right now, summer term. These are the prices, but they will be going up in the fall.

20:44We try not to raise them very much, but we do, usually need to raise them just because of the cost of things. The residency, consists of as you see there, it covers the lodging, the materials, most meals. Students are responsible for three of their dinners. And then if you still need to get supervision and you haven't finished your practicum, at the end of the six scores, we do ask you to enroll a term in your, and get either supervision or provide your own supervisor. So that's what that $50 and $100 at the end is. So all in all, the certificate, right now, total cost is $7,600. And as I said, it is a pay as you go program, so that's a cost that you'd be paying over the course of two years.

21:40That, I think, is what I wanted to tell you. Let's oh, let me stop sharing my screen and get to the questions so that I can see them. And, please, if there's any that you have, please put them there, because I always love your questions because I can't think of all the things you guys need to know. What time of the year do the two retreats typically take place? Okay. So you're talking about the residencies, I imagine. So those residencies occur it really depends on when you start the course. You can start in May. You can start in the fall. You can start in the summer. You can start in the fall. You can start in January. So it really depends on when you start. It's always gonna be your third some third term and your fifth term.

22:41Is it difficult to find people to complete the forty eight hours of spiritual direction during the program? I don't think so. Really, truthfully, of the students, now we've we have 220 graduates in the program, and I think I've only had maybe two or three that have had difficulties. And sometimes it's because they live in a kind of remote area or things like that. Usually, it's kind of a very pretty organic process. You know? I'll talk a little bit about how to apply for the program because I see that's one of the questions here. But it's pretty, you know, from the beginning, you're talking to your spiritual director. You're talking to your, if you have one, you're talking to your parish priest, or your pastor of your church.

23:27They know that what you're doing, so word kind of spreads. So it it's not usually difficult. We do we do kinda coach you through that so you can start finding those people, but we do ask you to find them. What are the prerequisites for admission to the program? Thanks for that question, Joe. So, in order to enter to the program, you have to do an application. The application is online on our website. And the it takes about fifteen minutes to fill out, and then you will get a link for four essay questions that are short. We're only looking for about five or six sentences for each question. And so you fill those out, and then we give you a link to send to your, faith leader, like the pastor of your church, the pastor you know, what, the if you're a Catholic, the pastor that's in charge of your church.

24:26If you're a Christian, you know, you're a faith leader, you're a pastor, and for them to fill out because we wanna hear from your local church about about this, if they think if they consider you someone that also would have this calling. You know how we really believe that that local community, that faith community, which you are a part, should also be kind of feeling this that you're having this nudge too. And those are the prerequisites, Joe. We don't require it's a certificate, so it's not a degree program, so we don't require any degrees. We do in the interviewing process and the application process, we do look for, a certain knowledge of your own faith tradition. And in order to you know, you can't just be someone that's just converted to, your faith or, even though that's beautiful, we want you to be part of your community and continue learning, before you would do something like this.

25:32The tuition, Julia, for the program is what I explained. $800 for each course and $13.50 for the residencies. That that slide that I had about the tuitions. Charles, is there a religious group or order guiding the theology? So the university Divine Mercy University is a Catholic university. We actually just the new one guide just started, allowing graduate schools to apply for them. So we actually just got approved by the Newman guide in December, as a faithful Catholic university. We're under the diocese of Arlington, very esteemed by the bishop here. And the, as any Catholic independent institute, if it's not associated to a diocese, it needs to be associated to a religious order. So the religious order that Divine Mercy University is associated to, is the legionaries of Christ.

26:39They hold positions on the board, and the president of the university and the chaplains will always be legionaries. So, between the the, you know, the we're always looking to be a faithful Catholic university that follows the teachings of the church, and our fidelity to our local leaders, that kind of guides the theology as well as having the legionaries there, as the priest on campus. So, can this be a career? Do we get paid as a spiritual director, or is this free work at churches? It's really not a career. It's a ministry. You sometimes some people, laypeople, or even religious that need money in order to be able to do the ministry will charge something. But, yeah, it's not a career. You really can't make a career out of this.

27:37It's really a ministry. But sometimes people do donate to people that give spiritual direction, or you can ask for a, you know, a stipend or pay. No? Are Canadians well welcome to take the program? Of course. We are we do have Canadians in the program. Is spiritual direction growing in demand? Yes. Definitely. Since the nineties, spiritual direction, has been growing. A lot can at least within the Catholic church could be traced back to Vatican two where they really made it clear that all people are called to holiness, and it's not just that religious or priests or have, that ability to be holy, but that all people are called to that. And, Benedict Pope Benedict has a beautiful quote that he said in 2011 saying, every Christian that wants to follow Jesus more closely, he should have a spiritual director.

28:38So and, yes, since COVID, spiritual direction has, been opened up to do more virtually. So, you know, I am a spiritual director. I would say I probably see half of my people in person and half of them virtually. Do people come to spirit laypeople for spiritual direction? Yes. Definitely. I mean, the way that the church understands it, there's a beautiful number in the catechism of the Catholic church saying that, you know, spiritual directors are servants of prayer, and there are men and women that are gifted with the gift of discernment and listening. So, the Catholic church has always understood that there can be lay spiritual directors. In fact, John Paul the second's first spiritual director was a layman, and he introduced him to mystical prayer.

29:31So, and there's just great examples, especially the early fathers and desert fathers and mothers, and there's a lot of a lot of lay good spiritual directors even though the tradition of spiritual direction was developed more in the monastic tradition. That's why we associate it with priests and nuns, but it definitely has always existed since the time of Jesus and the apostles. And the apostles were spiritual directors and the disciples and right. Thanks, Joe. Glad that that was a great answer for you. Are there grant scholarships or sponsorships? Well, you know, it is a ministry. So it's not like we have a lot of money. We pretty much, you know, the money that we make, we've invested into the program.

30:24We've you know, as any college, we don't make money for money's sake. So we don't really. There are, if you look on the DMU website, there's, under the financial aid, there's a there's a tab that says tuition partners. So there are organizations and diocese that have made partnerships with us. And if you belong to any of those, like FOCUS or Saint Paul's Outreach or, you know, diocese of certain diocese, the military diocese, you get a 10% discount on the courses. Elizabeth, I'm interested in certificate. I'm enrolled with a two year college. I find this important. Good. Thank you. Any scholarships available to okay. So, Doug, I hope that that answered your question. Mary, about the five day vacation exercises that offered at DMOU or where can it be done?

31:36Yeah. No. We don't offer it. It doesn't necessarily have to be done in person. You should be able to find things by you. There is a place, there is a place here in in DC, Our Lady of Bethesda Retreat Center that offers this. So that's some place that we can recommend to you. Usually, I just help people. If they need help finding it, I try to connect them to different possibilities. There's also a possibility to do what's called the spiritual exercises in daily life, which is a little bit longer retreat, but allows you to do it at your home. It's sometimes called the nineteenth annotation. I also could direct you in the direction of that if you're interested in that. Do priests, Sunday. Do priests need a pastor's recommendation too?

32:27What we ask from priests or religious brothers and sisters is that they get a recommendation from the person that oversees them, like a priest, that they would get a recommendation from the person that oversees their ministry in the diocese. If you're a pastor, sometimes it's someone that, might be auxiliary bishop. It might be, another priest that has been asked to take that charge by your bishop. So, it's a little bit different if you're a priest or religious. We always ask that to be kind of from your superior or the person that oversees your ministry. Hope that helps you Sunday. Would offering spiritual direction be a good complement to an existing practice in biblical counseling and Christian coaching?

33:13I would think so, and we definitely have students that do both things. Coaching is different because it has a very problem solution aspect to it, where spiritual direction is a very contemplative deep listening, atmosphere. Charles, would the diocese where one wants to practice need to approve? So it's different in every diocese, Charles. That's why from the beginning, we want you talking to your parish priest if you are a Catholic, because our certificate gives you a certificate. It's called a certificate of completion. It shows that you've been trained as a spiritual director. But our certificate is not about approving you to be a spiritual director for your local community. That really needs to be done by the people that are the leaders there.

34:08So some diocese get involved, like in South Carolina, Charleston, South Carolina. Some they have an office of spiritual director. Some diocese get involved in vetting spiritual directors. Some diocese do not, and the parish priest just kinda vets them. So it really kinda depends on where you are. I hope that answers that. Does do you need a spiritual director during the program? So that's an interesting question. Thanks so much for asking that. To get into the program, you do not need a spiritual director, but we ask you to have one by the time that you finish the first course, and to be in spiritual direction. We really believe that in order to guide others, you need to be guided yourself.

34:58To be discipled, you need to be discipled yourself. So, that's something that we teach throughout the whole program. So we ask you you can get into the program, but you need to have them by the end of the first course. The teachers in the first course usually can help you. They have resources. We've worked with them so that they have resources to give you. They can tell you about websites, or maybe they're in your area, and they could tell you about people that they know, which is kind of, really depends on where you are. Great questions. Thanks so much for all this. Let me see here if there's any ones. Elizabeth said mom. Oh, okay. So sorry. Let me go by. Okay. So the scholarships and financial aid I told you, does you need okay.

35:51Thanks. How many graduates have completed the program? The program was launched in January 2019, and as of today, there are 220. The Julia, what platform is spiritual direction offered on? Oh, like giving spiritual direction or the courses? The courses are offered on a platform that's called Canvas. That's a learning management system that we use to offer you the courses. Spiritual direction, if you give it online, I really it really depends on the platform that you use to you choose to use. Okay. Let's see if I have answered all of your questions. This is why I love having you all ask questions because I don't know if I can remember all these things that you'd be asking and just to have these questions.

36:50And, also, they're the particular interests you all have. Donald. So I answer how many graduates there are? 220. How old is the program? January 2019. The legion of Christ has been ever since the university was founded in '20 in 1999. That that's how the I was surrounded by a group of lay Catholic and Christian psychologists and counselors, and they asked the legionaries. They approached the legionaries to be because they needed to be sponsored as a Catholic institution. You'd either be sponsor, you know, be a diocesan college, or university, or be under the sponsorship of a congregation. So that's how long that's been. I'm not sure how to I'm thinking of becoming a religious teacher. Do you think it's necessary or would I need to be looking to something?

37:58Yeah. So, I mean, we do have theology teachers, especially high school theology teachers that start studying this, because they want to start giving spiritual direction not to their students. This program is not to give spiritual direction to some minors, but, because they wanna start working with college students or to kinda branch out and do a little bit more with their, theology. But I think if you're looking to be a religious teacher, it probably is better to start studying maybe education and, you know, religious education. If you're a man, should you seek a man spiritual director or does gender of the director matter? What matters is your ability to trust the director and build a relationship of trust And that that person allows you gives you the opportunity to you know, the way that they create the sessions allows you to be able to, you know, get in contact with the Lord.

38:59So and it kinda depends on seasons of life. You know? It's not like you find one spiritual director and stay with them for your whole life. It really depends on what you're needing and, you know, that that the type of person. It really has to do with the type of person and even their knowledge and the way that they are. It is important that you feel like you're in a safe place with them and you can trust them and that there's not a lot of distractions that you can really just focus on your relationship with the Lord. Hope that answers that. Well, that looks like it's all the questions. Julia, thanks so much. Joe, repeat when the residencies are. So, Joe, the residencies really depends. They're always in the begin the end of the third course and the beginning of the fifth course.

40:02So it really depends when you start the program when they'll actually be. We can we plan the residencies at least a year out, so we can definitely give you those dates, but it really depends on when you start. No. Doug, great question. Does the tuition include books? So good. Thank you. Most of the books and materials are online, and you don't have to buy them. They're there. We've already paid for them, and they're on the online platform, and we have permission to be using them and for you to be using them. We do ask you when you enter in the program to buy four books, and they probably cost maybe at the most a $100. And we do ask for the for the fourth course for you to buy. He leadeth me.

40:49So altogether, I think the books were, like, a $100, really not more than that. Thanks, Doug. I always forget to tell about talk about that. Thank you. We're coming up to to forty five minutes. Just wanna make sure that I've answered all the questions. I do want to let you know that I am still we still have some seats open for the May 21. And I if you're like, gosh. I wanna start, but I don't know if I can do it in that amount of time. Don't worry. I'll work with you, and help you through the process. That's part of what I do. It's not as hard. And if you're feeling that this is the time for you, somewhere sometimes is a good time to get in something like this. As I said, we do have some more seats still open.

41:39And if you are wanting to apply to the program, just because you came to the webinar, I will give you a code, that you use so as to waive the application fee. The application fee is usually $25. But if you get in touch with me and ask me for that code, I'm putting my email there in the chat. It's also on the website. I can give you the code so as to waive your application fee. Just to make it a little bit easier for you. And it's kind of a little thank you for coming to this webinar. So I hope you've seen my email there. It is on the website too and pretty much on any of the emails that go out, that have to do with the program. I would love to talk to you. If you are interested, I know that sometimes you have questions that you just need to get or things that you wanna talk about more personally.

42:51So please reach out to me. I would love to talk to you. I'm trying to remember my work phone number. If you need that, it's 703. I spend my days telling people this, but I don't have it memorized. Let me just pull it up here. 703348. 383. So there it is also in the chat. Well, I hope this this has been informative to you. Len, did you have a question that you wanted to ask? I see you've got your hand raised. You could just put it in that q and a box. That would be great. Thank you so much. Phone number. Are you not seeing it, Don? Oh, gosh. You don't see the number or the email? That's so strange. It's in the chat, Len, where you just put that. It's up above there. Here it is again. It's also on the website.

44:08If you go to divinemercy.edu and look up spiritual direction certificate, you will find it. It's in the chat. Like, where you guys put your where you chatted to put your names? I can I can tell you again? So the the my email is mbracket,bracke,tt,@divinemercy.edu, and my phone number is (703) 385-8385. Got it? Thank you all. God bless you. Take care.