SDC webinar with alumni & faculty member Natalie Jackson

0:06Let's just start. Natalie, it's good to have you with us. Oh, thank you. You know, it's as I said before, it's always great to hear from the people that are involved in the program. I, myself, never took this program. Right? I've always just been kind of involved in the the directing and the the creating of it. So it's good to hear you. My name is Maria Brackett. I'm the director the current director of the spiritual, direction certificate here at Divine Mercy University. I have the joy to get to know these students and kind of walk with them as they go through the program. And and it is a joy. It is a joy. Just when you think that you've met every type of person and the way that God works, with them, you find someone else, and it's always a surprise.

1:02So, Neli, why don't you tell us just a little bit about yourself kind of as an intro so that people can get to know you a little bit better? Alright. Well, thank you, Maria. I'd be happy to. My name is Natalie Jackson. I live in the Charlotte, North Carolina area. Born and raised in an airport family, so lived all over The US, but settled down in this area with my husband and daughter about twelve years ago. I'm a Dame in the order of Malta, which is a lay religious order of the Catholic church. And, I'm a professional spiritual director, graduate of Divine Mercy University's program. And also as Maria was saying, I I have the privilege of continuing to work with DMU as a faculty member for our residencies.

1:51And I'll do a little bit of project work on the side in the secular realm. My husband and I are cofounders of what's called the Eramos group named after the Mount Of The Beatitudes, and we offer spiritual direction, but also, leadership, faith based leadership, coaching. Great, Natalie. And I hope that you can explain that a little bit further on, you know, just kind of, like, where the program led you to. Natalie. Let's, let's just get started. Okay. So what was your experience in the certificate, Natalie, just in general? The work. But let's start off with the general question. General's good. Board's massive blessing come to mind. It, my experiences was just blessed from the beginning to the end of the program.

2:44Within the program, I really gained the profound awareness, just like Saint John the Baptist that I must decrease so that the Lord can increase, And that was very profound for me. In fact, that concept took me, into my first residency where my very first practice session with a holy priest. I had a profound experience where I really truly felt like I needed to decrease so the Lord could increase, and that's really kind of what spiritual direction is all about. So, it was very transformational for me personally, and just, like like I said, massive blessing. So how did you know were you thinking about becoming a spiritual director? What do you you know, kinda how did that come about, and then what drew you to this program in particular?

3:39Oh, sure. I had a long journey, and we we can only know, sometimes how that journey plays out when we look back. But my journey started actually over twenty years ago. I was in the military, and I was deployed after nine eleven. I was thinking at the time about going for a master's in leadership, but I got deployed. And, one of my roles in the military was to, sit with people and kind of dig in a little bit and and help them navigate whatever they needed to navigate. So I met someone in the desert when I was deployed whose mother actually I have now come to understand with a spiritual director, and that planted the seed on my heart. So I actually came back from the desert. I changed my major to a master's in community counseling, pursued that, and then just used that in various ways over the years.

4:35But, ended up working at a Catholic church in South Carolina in professional ministry, and that was where that seed seed started germinating, I think. And as I was transitioning from that parish during, the pandemic, our our priest was talking about how the Catholic church needs good spiritual directors. And so that placed that on my heart, and I prayed about it, talked to my priest about it. Father, should I look into this? I just I love to walk and journey with people in their faith. And the Lord brought me, to a a more serious discernment of programs. So and and I started, of course, like most people do on the Internet. What are the programs? What are they all about? And, Divine Mercy really stuck out to me because it's, amazing marriage of the human sciences and theology.

5:27It just it was it was everything I thought that, it it should be. So, of course, I asked my priest, to help me in that discernment process, and he had just such high regard for the university. And so that and the more and more I looked into it, I'm like, this is the one. This is the one. It just it felt right to me, and the Lord led me to that after a lot of prayer and discernment. So, again, I think that, I felt the program was very solid. I felt like the faith, reason, and action of the program were, were appropriate. It brought me back to John Paul the second. He was talking about faith and reason, those two wings on the bird and how that bird's not gonna fly that action without both. And so that really just came through for me in the program and, joyfully, was able to, participate in the program.

6:22Also, I thought it was really cool that, there were clinicians that were also spiritual directors. And so, I felt like the students had an added bonus that some of their instructors were were also, clinicians. So that just, when it came to the skills and the techniques that we got to practice, that made it, just feel like a cut above the rest. Yeah. That that's so true. You know, since Divine Mercy University is a graduate school, primarily, it was a graduate school created for the, human sciences, mental health professionals. Right? And really, but as a Catholic graduate school has always wanted to see how to take, you know, kind of what what's core of the university is the understanding of the human person that they worked on for ever since, it began.

7:13So they've always had in mind first, to bring it to the mental health field, but then to bring it to other fields, because, basically, it's a synthesis of the Catholic Christian understanding of the human person. Right? What they call at the university, the meta model, but it's kind of just like the big picture. Right? And so the spiritual objection certificate was built on that framework or within that no. Within that framework, on that foundation. And, and like like you were saying, Natalie, like, because, you know, Thomas Aquinas says grace perfects nature. Right? Or grace, fulfills, you know, completes. Right? So the nature that human nature, it's important as a spiritual director to understand it.

8:00So that's what we try to do at the university is weave together an understanding of that. Who is a human person and how do they flourish and how are they healthy? And then as a spiritual director, what are you trying to help them do? That's why I love this little tagline of our program, helping others flourish in their relationship with the Lord. Right? Because mental health professionals help people flourish in other relationships, and in their own emotional world. But really, the spiritual director is someone that walks along with someone, helps them to grow and really flourish in that relationship with the Lord. Yes. So, so well, we'll talk a little bit later about how you, you know, how you thought about using your training and how you've used it.

8:48Right? And maybe you already touched upon this, but what did you find most helpful about the program? What did I find most helpful? There were many things. One, one thing is I I really found it helpful that the curriculum was a blend of contemporary writing as well as the classic writing of our our our church, our saints. And so it was that blend of the two, which made it, you know, the church is ever ancient, ever new. And I felt like the program really captured that, and I found that personally very helpful. I also found it helpful, to just have incredibly accessible instructors. So our our instructors for the courses were were so passionate about spiritual direction, about our Lord, about DMU, that it really showed, you know, anytime I was going for extra support on a particular topic or or wanted to expand in some way or area.

9:50So the accessibility of instructors, really kind of, flowed over to the students as well. So what was very helpful to me is that really from the beginning, it was a community. And so I'm growing in that self awareness and all that interior work that has to happen in in a person who's pursuing spiritual direction. It made it a lot easier with that that support of the community. So I found that to be very helpful. And, also, I I found it to be very helpful that the program was very progressive in the sense that you really start you start getting to know yourself and the Lord first, and you're doing that interior work and really discovering. And and that makes you a more compassionate, spiritual director.

10:39As you you do that interior work, you start branching out to others. And and, so it's very it's a very holistic program. So I I thought that was helpful to start out with that, interior your work and move outward from there. Mhmm. Well, there's a lot of different topics that you touched upon there. But, yeah, it definitely speaks to just kind of how we kinda created the program, trying to really do it in a very thoughtful way. We took about a year and a half to create it. And it's funny that you talk about how accessible the teachers are because it's basically an online program. Right? And you do come to the and have those two residencies here in Virginia. We can speak about those a little bit later.

11:26But, the instructors are really, you know, coming to you and interacting to you on an online platform, yet you felt them present, which is great. I love hearing that. Yep. Absolutely. You I think you said it very well. Like, you wouldn't think it would be that way, but it it so was. And so, you know, we had one of my instructors was, in Spain, and I needed to speak with her about something. We set up a Zoom meeting. We talked. Anything that was needed, I was able to reach instructors really well and felt very supported. And so when we did the in person residencies, it it really was just cool to see everybody in three d. Otherwise, I already had that community feel, and that's I felt very bonded to the university because of the human interaction.

12:13So I think the university does a great job of bridging the gap between being there in person and and the virtual world. And it's so funny. So this just leads me into the question about, like, the bonding with the other people in your cohort. What was that like on an online platform and things like that? It was amazing. The the beautiful people that were in my cohort and which I've witnessed now as an on the faculty side also just watching the students, the the people that God draws to the program just they become, close very quickly because you're you're learning how to be vulnerable, and you're learning learning about the importance of vulnerability with the Lord and and building that rapport so you can be vulnerable with a spiritual director.

13:04And so, my cohort and I became like a family, and, you know, we had our first residency. If everybody's familiar with WhatsApp, we all put ourselves on the WhatsApp platform, and it became this, virtual community. We will work together physically. And, to this day, you know, I've graduated from the program last year. We are we are in touch with each other weekly, helping each other to maybe do peer supervision now that we're out working as spiritual directors or supporting each other by helping, alert each other to ongoing information opportunities, just you name it. And so, we became like a family, and and and we're journeying together in this ministry that the Lord has called us to, and we're in mutual support of each other.

14:00And it all started online practicing with each other, our triads, then, you know, meeting each other and bonding that the residencies. And then just really that journey continued on. So, honestly, that's one of my most favorite parts of the whole experience was the students and the family that formed, in our cohort. Yeah. And that's great. Now as a spiritual director that you have those peers and that support that are, you know, a group, a community that's kinda spread all all all the way through The United States and maybe even Canada. Right? Right. Depending on who was in your cohort. But, yeah, it's just a it's a beautiful support, right, to have and as you go out. So what's something that you discovered through the certificate about spiritual direction that maybe you didn't know before?

14:55Well, I had a background in counseling. So I came into it kind of with a little bit of that, you know, within me. And, you know, yes, obviously, built on some of those techniques. But what I think what really so, I guess, I discovered was how much, we're invited as spiritual directors to surrender to the movements of the Holy Spirit. And so this the holy spirit is the real spiritual director. So, what I discovered is there is this very beautiful internal prayerful dance that happens with the holy spirit as as you you kind of like I was saying earlier, decrease so that he can increase. And so I discovered, what that was like, and I don't think you would I would have initially known what that was like going into the program.

15:55So that was really cool. Something you have to experience, I would think. Yes. Yes. Now what was the most difficult for you? Whether it's something like logistically or, you know, maybe in the content or or whatever. Was it you know, what could you say was the most difficult or challenging for you in the program? I know this will sound funny, but, not being able to study more. So for for me, it was so enjoyable that, you know, there are other responsibilities of life. Sometimes it's like, oh, man. I have to do that. I'd rather kinda stay here and study more. And I think that's, because, truly, I just feel blessed to have that placed on my heart by the Lord. But I think also just the the seriousness of what spiritual direction is.

16:54I mean, this is you were a servant of prayer as a spiritual director. You are getting to journey with someone, as they they try to connect with the Lord, and those topics vary from very positive to very difficult. And so, the I don't wanna say the gravity, but the importance of really learning what I'm supposed to learn. It It was difficult for me to feel like I had enough time, but, but I think that's, also just a matter of faith too. So the program gives you, plenty of time. But I think that probably the hardest thing for me is I would I would have devoted even more time to my studies. Mhmm. Yeah. So let's talk a little let me see. I think I might have a slide about this, about, when we talk you know, just some things.

17:46But, the way that the course works, right, it's an online, and there's six courses to the certificate and two residencies. And the two residencies are actually part. Like, one residency is at the end of the third course, and the other residency is at the beginning of the fifth course. Right? And then you've got the 60 practicum hours, which are, you know, seeing people in spiritual direction and receiving supervision, within the courses themselves. So the timing when you talked about the timing well, there's the residency slide. Let me get but when you talked about the timing, it just reminded me, you know, basically, you're going through three courses a year. Right? So you do I don't know if people understand when you say, like, the timing that there's a good space between each course.

18:38Right? Did that did you find that that was helpful for you? It was helpful for me, actually, because then, you know, I went through the course and went through the material. But then in those breaks, I was able able to deepen in the material. And so I did find that to be very good because there's so much depth within each course, and you just wanna soak it in as much as you can. So, yes, the spacing of the courses helped with that. Again, I think my enthusiasm is in there too. But, yes, you you do bring up a good point. We did did have some time to deepen between courses. Yeah. There's usually about, eight to ten weeks between courses, except when you're talking about the summer term and then going into the fall.

19:28I think there there's only four. But, yeah, there was a lot of intentionality for us when we created the courses, the certificate to have that spacing, because people have you know, all of our students do what I say a full time other thing with their life. And, also but, also, because we feel like if this is a ministry that the lord is calling you to, you have to move kind of at the lord's pace into that into this. And you kind of have to let things sit and pray on them and to see where the lord is taking you. You know, I think part of being a spiritual director and actually practicing the ministry really does ask of you to have kind of a contemplative rhythm to your life. And I I like to think that this that this way of us kind of setting out the courses with that space allows for people to kind of slow down and get a more contemplative rhythm.

20:32I know as I, as a spiritual director, I'm always, you know, besides having my time of daily prayer and connecting with the Lord, you know, bringing my directees to prayer, praying for them. Mhmm. Anything you wanna add about that, Natalie? No. No. Just completely agreeing with you, about that rhythm. Mhmm. So let's talk a little bit about the residencies, because, you know, that's a special element in the course. And, and there's two of them, and they come, as I said before, in the end of the fir of the third course and then at the beginning of the fifth course. So, basically, you're doing one a year, when you're going through the program. Now these residencies, you know, you come here to Sterling, Virginia.

21:33You arrive on a Wednesday evening, and you leave Sunday lunch. They definitely are intense. That we do have a retreat on Saturday morning, which helps you to kind of just bring maybe little things that you've been feeling or experiencing to the Lord. But what were these experiences like for you, Natalie? Well, the first residency, I came in a little nervous. You know? Normal. Mhmm. It was in three d this time. You know? And what was beautiful, though, is, again, both the staff and the students just it's just a loving environment to be in. So incredibly charitable environment. So anyone that's nervous, you know, that starts to ease after you get into it, and you really start practicing fairly early on in your groups.

22:31And, what I experienced was a lot of support. So, when you're practicing, what are called vignettes, you have also faculty members with you as well as some students. And you have the opportunity to be coached. You have the opportunity to hear constructive feedback and and always consistently in a very charitable and helpful manner. So it really helps you to start growing your confidence, and that's what I that's what I experienced is I I experienced a growing confidence. You know, the Lord is helping me to see, hey. You you know, I can do this through you. So my experience was very positive as far as a learning lab, so to speak. This is the time to practice and ask your instructors questions and allow yourself to be coached.

23:26And, and so I I felt like it was a time of really unfolding. And, again, like I was saying earlier, definitely bonding with your cohort and encouraging each other. One of the things I said that I experienced was the residency was, like, God twenty four seven, and I loved it. I told my husband, like, I found my people, people that could talk about the Lord all the time. So, it was fun in that regard as well. So it was definitely an unfolding and, the time of camaraderie and support. Mhmm. Great descriptions. And as you can see here in the pictures, these are some pictures of the cohorts that have gone, and there's just you know, it's just a real mixture of people. That's for sure. Men and women, religious, and sisters and priests and deacons.

24:19The deacons you probably can't identify as well, because they're not in their clergymen here. But, yeah. So just a beautiful time. And as Natalie says, just, you know, actually getting to know your cohort and your instructors, better and the university and, and getting that opportunity for in person learning, which, you know, there's there's a lot you can do online, but this skill training just to kind of hone those details and everything and act and and do just like Natalie was saying that constructive teaching, we really feel like that needs to be in person. So is there anything that surprised you about the program, Natalie, whether as you were going through it? Or I was mentioning earlier one of the things I liked about the program, which was also a surprise at the beginning.

25:22So when you go into the program, you think I'm I'm going you know, I feel in that the lord may be calling me to be a spiritual director. I think a lot of people come in and saying, you know, lord, I I'm you're gonna use me to help. But what you really, again, start doing is you do a lot of interior work, and you you gain a great deal of self awareness. And there's a great unfolding of spiritual growth for the student. So I think I was surprised at just how much of that there was. And and then looking back, it was obviously an awesome part of it, which make makes us all better spiritual directors. But I would say that was a little I was surprised at how much I had to actually focus on myself because I came with an outward thought.

26:08But I I totally see the value in in how that was laid out. Yeah. Definitely. There is definitely that thread of building up the self awareness and self knowledge. Right? So that you understand as a director what you might be bringing to the conversations, maybe the lenses, the triggers. You know? We're human beings too and and getting to know yourself and, and deepening that relationship with the Lord, is a is a really important part too of spiritual direction. Being able to, you know, all the time become a better instrument so that really what we're able to give is the Lord and, his mercy and his love and his, you know, the listening ear through as ourselves as human beings, but, you know, probably trying not to pass along too much of, our limitations or weaknesses.

27:03Although, sometimes the Lord works in through everything. I always say he's pretty ecological. He doesn't know he does. So, what would you say to a layperson? You're a layperson. You're married, have a family. What would you say to a layperson looking into the program? I know that some people wonder, like, can I be a spiritual director if I'm a layperson? Isn't this just for priests or nuns or and it's definitely beautiful priests and nuns because they have a beautiful formation and spiritual life and that they bring to it. But Yeah. What would I say to a layperson? Well, I would say if you're looking for a great program, look no further than DMU. I would say, go towards the program with a, open heart, to what you know, to the Lord and, see it as a process of discernment.

28:06So, you may go into the program, and that may or may not be the signal that you will be a spiritual director. There's kind of some ongoing discernment that happens in the program, both on the part of the student and the school. And so just have that open heart. Lord, you're calling me here. Whatever you do with this is good is good. And I would say that, as a spiritual director, you or as a layperson considering spiritual direction, think about the holy priests that you will potentially get to support. Say the Lord has you go through the program when you are a spiritual director. Our our priests are so wonderful. I worked for a a wonderful priest for three years, and I saw the intensity of his ministry.

28:58And so many people were craving spiritual direction and wanting spiritual direction. Now pope Benedict said in 2011, he he encouraged everyone to get spiritual direction, you know, all Catholics. The church has encouraged it almost from the beginning. But the availability of spiritual direct directors from good solid programs is is not gonna match the population that could need or want spiritual direction. So, for a layperson, think about how you could support your parishes that are holy priests in this ministry, how you can be an extension of that and, and open your heart to the joy that that can bring. You know? So you would get a DMU solid formation under solid expertise, caring instructors, caring community.

29:49There's so much wrapped up in it. It's an it's truly a humbling honor to be able to serve as a spiritual director. Beautiful. Well, I see some questions are coming here, and I just wanna make sure. So, Sharon, you wanna know how long the program is. So the program is, it's six courses, and you you take usually three a year. You can take a break if you need to. Sometimes there's something that happens and someone can't study one of the terms. Right? But it takes you usually if you go through the usual space pace that we have, it will take you, two years. At a rhythm of three courses a year, those courses are eight weeks long. So we're not talking about tons of time. We're talking it altogether twenty four weeks out of a fifty two week year.

30:44Right? So that's kind of the pace. And then I think someone was also asking about the cost. Any questions that you have, just put them in the question and answer, and then I can and then I can make sure that we get them answered. So the cost I have a slide here that shows that. So each course costs $800, each of those eight week courses. And then when we do have a residency, they have a separate cost. So each residency costs 1,100, and that covers the hotel, your food, you know, materials, the teaching. You're just responsible for getting your, you know, getting to the school and going getting back home and, three dinners, but everything else is given to you there. So all in all, the course costs the certificate costs about $7,000.

31:51If you do need to take continue on in practicum because you're, finishing your your practicum hours after you finished a course, you can do that. It's it's a $100 a term to get supervision. And if you're just gonna continue in practicum and you already have a supervisor, it's it's just $50 a term to keep yourself enrolled during that time. Let me see some of these other questions. Are there any scholarships available? Not really. You will see on the pro on the website of the program, if you if you've gone there, we do have a pop up that asks people to contribute to what we call the SDC grant fund. And, basically, that's a fund that we've set up that if people give to it, we try to give it to students.

32:45You know, as much as comes in is as much goes out. Right now, we're at zero in that fund because we have given it away, and we try to, you know, use it to help people to defray costs. So that's something that is offered. But there aren't any other scholarships. And sadly, because it is a certificate program, it's not even like you that you can use. You know, if you've been in the military and you have some, a GI bill or something like that. It's a certificate, so it it doesn't it's not covered by that. So, what we do say, you know, is if there is a community that you're thinking of serving or that's asking you to get this training as a spiritual director is to, you know, see if they're willing to pay some of the course and you to pay the other part of the, you know, certificate.

33:34Some of the parishes have done that. They sponsor people. Or if you're a part of a ecclesial movement or organization that's asking training, sometimes they'll come forward and either pay for it in full or or help you out. I'm gonna come back to you, Natalie, but let me just see if there these other questions. Definitely. Discounts for those working for the church or already in military. So we did have, for those people, we're we're just actually changed, and I don't even know Natalie knows about this. We just actually changed the process of application to the program because we found that there were people who we did have a requirement, a previous requirement that you needed to be in, have a history of frequent pure spiritual direction.

34:27We found that for some people that was difficult because they have lost their spiritual director or maybe they weren't they had been in some type of spiritual, talks, but they had never, you know, gotten to that place to really solidify that relationship. So now we've just recreated the the acceptance of the program into two tiers. And so you actually can get into the first two courses without having a spiritual director at this current time, and you need to get one by the end of the first course. Right? So that just allows us to help you to find a spiritual director and just to help you and better. And it also gives an opportunity to get into the program and start learning and seeing if, you know, it is a good fit for you.

35:15So in those first two courses, there's not any type of discount. But if you stay on for the third, you know, if you get accepted as what we call a candidate for a certificate, which is with the third course, then there is a 10% discount for anyone that can show that they're in good standings with their with their parish community, their church community. So there is that. And is having a degree required? No. You're not. There's not any requirement of degrees to enter into the program. We do there is an interviewing process. There is a application process. We are looking for a certain amount of theological knowledge because the program does have a considerable amount of theological content, but, it can't take the place of basic catechetical training.

36:12Right? So we are looking that you come up with a certain, theological knowledge and that you have the capacity. It is not a master's program, but there is definitely an academic rigor to the program. Maybe you can speak to that a little bit, Natalie. Just kind of that. Oh, absolutely. As Maria said, academic rigor, is definitely part of the equation. There's a lot of deep and meaningful reading. Some of my readings, I had to read twice. If it was Saint John of the Cross. However, again, Maria was saying you have to have a certain degree of formation going into the program. That was definitely true. I'm not sure I I would have been able to hang with the material if I had not had the formation that I had.

37:01And the program itself has a certain like, we do have them do reflective essays, which really never are more than a thousand words. Mhmm. But, you know, there is a certain and we do you know, we have a simplified APA, style that we ask them the students to use. We try not to make it too cumbersome, but we just try to keep a certain amount of formality just to help the learning, and the communication. So, there's a question about, you know, can protestants come into this program? Of course. Anyone that wants to learn on the Catholic Christian tradition of spiritual direction, which is a very rich tradition, we do have. We have a Episcopalian minister in the program. We've had protest Protestants from all different walks of, the Protestant church, Anglicans, Lutherans.

37:54We love it. It's, we're a Catholic university, but, you know, Catholic Christian. And, no. We're all Christians, and and the vision that we have of the human person is really one that, puts together the the Catholic Christian theology, philosophy, and, understanding of the human person. So I'm not gonna take any more questions just yet because I wanna just get to kind of like post program for you, Natalie. So after you finish this program, we're you know, give us a little sense of where you feel like the Lord took you or, or where he's taking you. Yes. Oh, okay. Well, definitely. In going into the program and definitely traveling through the program, I knew that I wanted to be able to offer spiritual direction, as much as possible.

38:55You know? It's difficult to do it full time, I would say, but that would be a dream come true. And so, with much discernment, I was able to, on a part time basis, work as a professional spiritual director. So I see directees, monthly, and I have a, you know, a good amount of directees that I work with, through what I was mentioning you earlier, the group, so a formal framework. I support, the, local parishes. I support the Catholic conference center in, Hickory. And I, actually, am a retreat master for, using my spiritual direction skills, but also, I support retreat. So, one of the things that I do is if a retreat is happening, I actually, go and meet with the retreatants, as they're going through the retreat so they could process what the Lord might be placing on their hearts.

40:05So it's a great way to support people using the spiritual direction training. So so I see individuals. I support retreats. I I facilitate retreats now. So the Lord's open wide the doors. There's some discernment, that my husband and I are in the middle of right now and how we could possibly even reach out to veterans using spiritual direction. So, it's exciting what the Lord can do, when you keep yourself wide open to what what he wants. So he's really opened a lot of doors in the last year. It's been very exciting. And even I would say, he's allowing us to also, see new dreams within the spiritual direction framework that I didn't even realize were there. Yeah. Right? It's a lot. In the whole time.

40:56In the last year. Mhmm. Yes. And then the the beauty of working at DMU with the faculty to to support our students going through the program. I Yeah. Amazing. So, I mean, you can be a part of training through future spiritual directors as well. So as you could see, there are a lot of directions you can go. Yeah. It really is. And it's kind of as unique as each each student because all of you have gone in different directions with it. We love having you come for the residencies. Well, let me just take a look and see if there's anyone more. So, John, you're asking about the the semester dates, for the residency. So the residency is always occur in, September, October, January, February, and May and July.

41:47The dates are not set yet because they have to do with the academic calendar of the university, but they will be set pretty soon. I think as soon as we get January 1, they get the next year's academic calendar up on the website, and it's pretty standard. They always happen within a certain amount of time, every year, so it's pretty standard when they'd be happening. So, so you'd be able to have those dates beforehand. Rosemary, you're asking if this is something that you do independently or most people employed by their parishes? Well, it is a ministry. Right? So some people do it for free. Some people charge money. Some people, work within the structure of their parish. We in the program teach that everyone needs to be attached to a faith community, right, and work under the authority of the leader of that faith community.

42:39So we train you, but we don't send you nor do we kind of work with you because we don't work on a local level. Right? So, you know, you need to be attached to a faith community that you're serving. Right? The gifts of the the gifts of the spirit are given for the service of the community, and there's always always an authority there. Right? Within within any type of faith tradition. Terry, you asked about the practicum. The practicum is, sixty hours. Right? So it's forty eight hours of seeing people in spiritual direction and twelve hours of supervision. Those forty eight hours of seeing people in spiritual direction, these are directees that you find. We kinda work that, you know, through that.

43:24We had take little steps as you go through the program so that when you're ready to start seeing people on the fifth course, you have some of that lined up already, and you have those relationships, you know, those people willing to start, to be directed as, from someone that's in a time of training. Right? And then the supervision is actually given to you in the fifth in the sixth course. So as you're seeing people in spiritual direction, that supervision is being given to you by your instructors. So that's how that practicum works. I hope that I have answered that question. John is asking, can couples attend? Yes, John. I think now we're I think we're on our fourth or fifth couple that is going through the program together and becoming spiritual directors together.

44:18And it's beautiful. They have a beautiful experience besides the fact that every every spouse of anyone that goes through the program is always thrilled with just how the program has helped their spouse. And right? So they are kind of our biggest cheerleaders. Let's just see if there's anything else. I think I answered all these. Oh, Natalie. You have someone that wants to talk to you? You can go into the chat. Right, Natalie? Because someone wants to be in touch with you. They sent you their email. They're at Fort Liberty, North Carolina. Kylie. Do you see that? Oh, yes. Yes. I would love to. I will I'll make a note of it for sure. That's where my my I was grew up in an air force family, so my, baptismal certificate has the military archdiocese seal on it.

45:17Yay. That's fun. Very good. I would Yeah. Liberty, North Carolina Fort Liberty. Active duty army. Awesome. Great. That's great. I'm glad that we can make that connection. So the last question I have is when do classes start? The next, the next class course starts in January. It starts January 10. And if you're if you, want to apply for that, you can go on the website, the Divine Mercy website. Look at our program. The application is there. And you can also sign up for the conversation with our admissions adviser, or you can just reach out to him. Here is his information. His name is Greg Shapiro, and here is his email address and his phone number. And that phone number also accepts calls and text messages so that you can just get in touch with them however you would like.

46:20We've got a few more weeks before Christmas, so we're doing kind of, you know, bringing the last people through this enrollment process. We do wanna have you through the enrollment process, though, about two weeks before you start classes just because, there is a small orientation course that we wanna give you, and, you know, we just want you to succeed. And sometimes, when you're running through it, it's it's very you know, it can be difficult. And it does take a little bit more time to just to get to learn if you've not learned on online. I think there's just one more question. So will you be prepared Madeline's asking you to be prepared to lead the nation's spiritual exercises by the end?

47:09No. The program trains you to be a spiritual director. It doesn't train you in the spiritual exercises. It's not difficult once you're a spiritual director, good to get that training. Really, that's probably like a two day training. But we it's not a part of the program. Well, good. Natalie, anything that you wanna say before we sign off here? Well, thank you to everybody that has attended this evening. Thank you to being attentive to maybe a movement on your heart just to to look into DMU. I'll keep you in my prayers as you discern, this program. But I I think I've expressed, as much as I can, like, this has been a massive blessing. And, DMU is a very, very special university, so thank you for checking it out.

48:06And, again, you'll be in my prayers as you discern whether this is a call from the Lord. Mhmm. So it's so funny that you say that about DMU, Natalie, because it is a special university, and it's doing some incredible things of putting counselors and psychologists, faith based, you know, that really integrate faith and reason. And they you know, the latest of human sciences, but also within the lens of faith. And it's really interesting. I haven't had a chance to comment this to you, but there's a good amount of students that that start the spiritual direction program and then finish it and then go on to the counseling program or, you know, or do the masters in psychology because it's like the Lord started something in their heart there and made them understand that, you know, this was the beginning of them wanting to do even more or to help even in another way.

49:04So it's kind of beautiful and vice versa. There's people that have done the masters in psychology or have done this counseling and have decided to also want to serve people as a spiritual director, you know, getting this training. So it is it is a beautiful place to be and to be part of trying to just, you know, be part of a university that's trying to help in, in a solid and good way based on the the true understanding of the human person from the Catholic Christian perspective. So Definitely. Thank you all. Thank you, Natalie, for taking this time to be with us and sharing. Yeah. My pleasure. Thank you. And, thank you all, all participants for showing up tonight. We hope we've answered your questions.

49:49God bless you all. God bless you. Happy Advent.