SDC Webinar with Fr. Simon Devereux

0:06Let's get started. So just to introduce myself, and I recognize a few names here, but my name is Greg Shapiro. I am the admissions adviser here at Divine Mercy University for the spiritual direction certificate program. I've been with the university for a couple of years now, but only this year started enrolling for SDC. Previously, I was enrolling for the psychology program, but I I've really enjoyed it. I've I've loved working with, students that have a passion for spiritual direction, and just communicating with them and understanding what is driving them to this ministry and helping them along the way. So with that, I want to introduce, my co guest host. However, we're gonna give that title to you, father Simon.

1:00So father Simon, if you could introduce yourself, that would be great. Yeah. Sure. Well, thank you, Greg. It's a blessing to be here this morning. It's, just after 08:00 Pacific time, and I'm coming from Northern California. I live in San Jose, California or Silicon Valley as some people refer it. And my name is father Simon Devereux. I'm a professed member of the legionaries of Christ. I'm a Catholic priest. And, delighted to be here with you this morning to to talk about the spiritual direction certificate. Great. Well, I appreciate you being here. It's always a blessing just having active students just sharing how their experience has been and, giving a little bit more clarity to those that are looking into this sort of program for them.

1:55So with that said, again, I'm gonna just highlight to the new, guests that if any questions come up as we're covering information, go ahead and drop that into the chat or the q and a section. I promise you we'll get to that, and, we'll just go from there. So father Simon, I'd love to start by asking you a few questions. You're now coming toward the end of the whole program. So, overall, what has been your experience in the how's the experience been for you for the SDC program? Yeah. Thank you, Greg, for that question. I mean, it's been incredible. It's been such a blessing, so many blessings. And I really I think it'd be nice let's maybe frame this in prayer. Yeah? What do you think before we kinda do a deep dive Just just to work with the holy spirit.

2:52Yeah. Let's do that. In the name of the father and the son of the holy spirit, amen. Come, holy spirit. You are welcome. Thank you for this renewal of the church, which you are breathing into the members of your body throughout the whole world, and we praise you for this this flame of love and light, which you have given to Divine Mercy University and in particular for this army of spiritual directors, lay and religious, consecrated priests who are responding to your your call to be the listening ear for your people to help people become saints. So we praise you, and we thank you for this opportunity to remember the blessings and to share the great news of what's going on in Divine Mercy University.

3:52We ask this through the intercession of Saint Dymphna. Amen. In the name of the father and the son and the holy spirit. Amen. Amen. Greg, I think probably the the blessings of the the program is to really be more and more rooted in prayer. And, so but, yeah, to answer your question, so many blessings. Goodness me. I mean, where to begin? I think I got into the program kind of haphazardly. Yeah. I think it was a fruit of the pandemic, actually. Mhmm. You know? Back in, what, March 2020, we were all kind of grounded. Yeah. We couldn't couldn't go out, shelter in place and all of that. And, so I live with seven other priests, seven other legionary priests, in in our home here in in San Jose. And, you know, we started, to do, livestream masses.

5:03Yeah? You know, we we couldn't go out. And so people we started doing, yeah, masses, and then we even started giving, like, conferences once a week, just like two or three of us. And and so that was fun. I've kinda opened my eyes to the world of this, you know, of of Zoom and and the virtual world and how you just couldn't contain the holy spirit. Right? I mean, he was coming up with all kinds of initiatives. But I think one thing led to another. I think on a personal level, the pandemic was was a blessing because it was kind of a reset. I don't know how it was for you, Greg, but I, started to eat better, So I started to, you know, get into shape, do more exercise. And then and then and then I thought, well, you know, I'm feeling a bit flabby intellectually, to be honest.

6:00After ten years since my ordination, I was really feeling like, wow. It'd be good to get back into some studies. And so that was kind of the beginning of eventually landing in the spiritual direction certificate. So Well There you go. Yeah. Yeah. I think for a lot of people, that sort of experience a couple years ago, caused for them to sort of reassess sort of where they were at their lives. For me, I I I got married right at the peak of the pandemic. So so it was brand new, but it it was, I mean, it was something that we my wife and I just sort of experienced together and, yeah, but that that makes sense that you something like that kind of made you rethink. How do I what should I do at this point to, like you said, you were feeling intellectually flabby, and so this program was sort of a source for you to rebuild that strength and and add more so to your vocation.

7:09Yeah. Exactly. I, you know, I had heard about it through a a confrere, father Peter Hopkins who had studied the MSP, the masters of science in psychology at Divine Mercy University, and he was raving about it. They were this was pre pandemic, 2018. He I was living in New York at the time, and and he passed through. And so I kind of put that back in the back of my head saying, yeah, one day, I really wanna I'd like to do that. And, October 2018, I was transferred from the East Coast to the West Coast. And, and then, like I said, I was here for a year, and then the pandemic hit. So I looked into the the MSP, program, but it seemed for me just to be a little bit more than I was looking for at that particular time.

8:02And then I'm not don't remember exactly how I heard about the spiritual direction certificate, but when I learned about it, it sounded like a much better fit for me in terms of the time commitment. And, also, I the work I do, I work with young adults here in the valley. And, and so I was starting to do a little bit of spiritual direction. And I thought, oh, that's that's a that's a good that sounds like a good fit. Yeah. I actually, I I'd done a course in YouTube in, around that time as well. I thought maybe God was calling me to do that because some people had said, oh, you you know, you do well on on on the camera. And so I went through, an online program and decided that that wasn't for me.

8:58Although I did learn some some interesting things. It was kind of ironic now how God actually led me in the the kind of the opposite direction. Of, you know, YouTube is, like, you're kind of so out there, and your whole life becomes, you know, transparent to everybody. Whereas now I'm doing more and more spiritual direction, which is which is really so hidden and and confidential and private and sacred. So it's kind of gone from one end of the spectrum to the other. That's funny how God works in those ways. Yeah. Yeah. Excellent. That's great. So, what what have you found to be the most helpful for you, about this program within your ministry as a priest? Well, I mean, I think I found my ministry.

9:51I mean, I was sent out here by my congregation to do vocational promotion and and and be a point of reference for anyone in the area who wanted to discern with the legion. And and I still continue to do that. But when I started the spiritual direction certificate, particularly when I went to the residency, so for our listeners who are not familiar, you know, it's mostly, an online course, which you can do at your own pace, pretty much. I mean, you have, like, these two months semesters, and then you have a two months break, and then two months on. But when the third, the third semester, you do this what they call a residency. It's, oh, you've got it here, Greg. That's great. At, you know, four day on-site there at Divine Mercy University in in Northern Virginia.

10:52Great. When I went there, I I said, I've come home. This is my home. These are my people. And as we started doing a lot of role playing, which we can get into later if you want, I realized, gosh. This is what I love. This is I really felt like God, in a sense, made me for this. And so I was just so moved and so grateful that, you know, at 42 years of age, in a sense discovering my vocation within, you know, my priestly vocation. So that's been a source of great, great joy. And it's god is you know, he's so wonderful that as I've now been learning these skills, God's been sending people for me to help without even me doing anything. They just seem to arrive. And so how has helped my ministry?

11:56As I said, I think it's become become my ministry. Yeah. That's great. Yeah. And then with the vocation, piece as well, I mean, vocation, counseling is is is a bit different from spiritual direction, but there there's a lot of overlap, obviously. So all the listening skills that we're taught, that's been incredibly helpful, not only for my ministry, but for my community life too, being and my prayer life too, Greg. Learning how to listen, learning how to to share with God, you know, every every morning, having an hour. You know, we have an hour of of personal prayer time, and that has just I feel like I'm flourishing. Yeah. That's that's excellent. And, you know, it's interesting because every time I have conversations with current students or former students that have graduated, I typically ask them how what surprised you about the program?

13:06What did you get out of it that you weren't expecting but turned out to be a, real fruits in your life and within your activity in this ministry? Some answers I've gotten, and it it's something I didn't think about, but it makes a lot of sense. For some of them, they've said, my, my my, relationship with my own spiritual director has really flourished more, just because they've now gotten a better sense of what the spiritual director that they're working with has been asking them or what they're putting on the table to help guide them closer to God. And so they're now getting an even deeper sense of how do we actually go about spiritual direction, but even from the perspective of the directee.

13:57So I thought that was just excellent hearing this from the students, and and it's one of those unforeseen fruits that happens for a lot of them, but turns out to be a great benefit. Yeah. Absolutely, Greg. And in my own case, I had to I had I I felt called to look for a new director because I realized that although I had been blessed with, with very holy spiritual directors, legionaries, and I got a lot of good advice, I started to realize they weren't trained, really. Well, it's particularly not trained in in the, evocative contemplative method that's, used really by, Divine Mercy University and the spiritual direction certificate. And I found that as we started to do these role plays beginning in the third semester, I was getting so much out of those role plays where, yeah, you I mean, you kinda make things up.

15:16Right? But at the end, you're really talking about experiences that you've had or things that you're living. And I was getting so much out of those role plays, Greg. Mhmm. I started to think, wow. And I started to realize my my spiritual director, holy man, and I got a lot of God work through him without a doubt. But I was really feeling called to someone who could help me go deeper and and someone who had been trained in the listening, to really help me, understand what God was doing in my life. And so I I prayed about it, and I ended up, with a a lay woman, someone who's, been doing spiritual direction for decades, kind of a grandmother figure. But the first time we spoke, I said, I've never met anyone who listened so well.

16:16It was like like a I felt like a thirsty man in a desert and coming upon an oasis and just being plunged into that cool, refreshing water. Mhmm. I said, I want more of that. So I asked if he would be my spiritual director. And since January of this year, I've been blessed. And, yeah, god god has a timing for everything. Right? And so I guess I was ready for that. But, yeah, that's been another wonderful surprise, Greg, and a blessing from the the this course at Divine Mercy University. That's wonderful. You know, and I I wanna get back to the residencies in a moment, but since you had mentioned your, just the fact that going through this, you had a little bit more clarity of where you needed to go as a directee.

17:12I would love to speak a little bit more about that because you had mentioned how your spiritual director is a laywoman. And I think for many, many folks that are looking into this, but primarily speaking about the laypeople, that are being called to this. Now and then they'll express a little bit of hesitancy because they might think, should I be doing this? I'm not a consecrated person. I'm not a priest. I'm not a religious. Is this actually could I be interfering with God's will for me? And I always remind them how this is a ministry that God could call anyone to. This isn't reserved strictly for one type of vocation, but he does call all sorts of people. And it and part of that's because they can speak from their own experience as being a single layperson or being a married layperson or whatever it may be.

18:11But I'd love to hear a little bit from you. What what you would maybe perhaps say to those people that are concerned. Could this be by when they ask themselves, is this something that I could be, pursuing wrongfully or or whatever it may be? Yeah. Thank you for that, Greg. I when I began my religious life, I was under the impression that all priests were spiritual directors or should be spiritual directors. But I came to realize relatively recently, a friend of mine, we were all, we joined together, and we were walking he came to visit, and we were walking on the coast. And he said, you know what? I really love teaching. I love tea I and I love writing books. That's my thing. When someone comes to me and wants to have a long term relationship, I'm like, it's really not my cup of tea.

19:13Right? Yeah. I can do the one off. You know? If you've got a specific problem, I can I can help you with that? And and I was like, oh, okay. So may it started to make me think that not all priests are given that that charism of, spiritual being a spiritual director. And then when I I met this lay woman who's now my spiritual director, it was so clear. I was like, well, she has that charism. She has that gift. She has that calling. And that was confirmed in in spades when I went to the residency. And, you know, I think 90% of the folks there were laypeople, mostly women, though I think many men are called to it as well. And and I saw well, even before I went to the residency doing the these triads, you know, these mock, sessions, Many of these people, my classmates, I could it was so clear they had the gift of spiritual direction.

20:23And so it also ties in it may be some people are wondering what is my charism. And I I heard this explained quite well that there's three indications for what might be the charism that you have. Right? You know, we're all called to holiness. Right? That's the first gift, the first vocation. And then the second, this particular state in life. You know, you you got married during the pandemic. Okay. But then what's your personal vocation? What's your charism? And so there's three kind of three indicators that, of a carousel. One is other people mention it. Other people say, oh, you're really good at that or, you know, have you ever considered doing this? Secondly, it's something that comes very easily to you.

21:12Like, you don't even think about it really. You know, some people I have a friend, a priest friend who's just a natural administrator. The way he's able to juggle fundraising and expenses and employees, and it's like, I couldn't do that in a million years, but for him, it's like water of a duck's back or it's just the air he breathes. Yeah. And then thirdly, the the fruits are supernatural because it's not yours they're not your skills. Skills can help, but but, essentially, it's a charism. It's a you become a channel of God's grace. Yeah. So the fruits are supernatural. They don't really correspond to the human instrument. Yeah. Mhmm. So, you know, you were you were pointing out that, some laypeople, you know, I think the the priests are the natural go tos.

22:15Right? You know? People open up to us, very readily. Yeah? But I think we we're realizing there's there's so few priests. Yeah? And priests have many obligations and duties, particularly parish priests. I think, you know, historically, religious priests have been more go tos for spiritual direction. But not all priests have that charism, and many laypeople do. I have a friend. I was giving him spiritual direction. And but then we became very close. And and we both realized, and he asked me first. He said, you know what? I think I really wanna foster this friendship, and so I need a new spiritual director. Can you help me? And and he said, I I would like a woman to be my spiritual director. He's married, happily married, and he said, I really feel like an older woman would be, at this point in my life, something good.

23:16So I was able to connect him with, with a classmate. And so I think this is it's very, exciting for the church, you know, because now there's a lot more possibilities for people to find, spiritual directors. Because it's a big commitment. Meeting with someone once a month for an hour, you know, for could be for years and years. Yeah. It's a big commitment. Yeah. Yeah. And multiple attend, directees as well, I would imagine. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Right. So I think it's, it's very hopeful. When I went to the residency and I I started meeting these wonderful people from all over the country, I got so excited because, Greg, I was thinking, they're gonna be forming saints. Yeah. They're gonna be churning out saint you know, trees of Avalon, Joan Joan of Arc, and Carlos Acutis.

24:12I mean, this is gonna be so wonderful for the church. Yeah. Yeah. And and even fostering their own, holiness as they're doing this. They're getting a better sense of God's mission for them and growing even deeper into it. So that's one of the other benefits to this sort of ministry. Great. I I mean, giving spiritual direction is so humbling. It's so beautiful. It's so sacred. And to see how people, were hearing God and responding to God and discovering God in the midst of really difficult situations is just it's awe inspiring. It really is. It's such a gift. Yeah. Yeah. That's great. So, you know, I'd like to talk a little bit more about the residencies too because it sounds like this has been almost the, I don't wanna say that the whole climax of the the program, but perhaps it was for you because this really is a point where students, they they come together.

25:25They get to know each other virtually through the online format, using Canvas, but then they actually get to see each other face to face for the first time, and they get to say, oh, it you know, here you are in front of me. We've been communicating this whole time. Yeah. And then now we get to actually do this together. But what's so great about this is that and it sounds like this is what you were alluding to, how everything that you've been learning, all of the content in the courses and all the reading material has been sort of leading up to this moment where, physically, you get to now, you know, in person, you get to now put into practice these skills and, everything that you've been really diving into in these mock spiritual direction sessions through role playing and getting to hear the lectures on campus.

26:22So, I mean, overall, it sounds like I I think you already said it pretty well, but just generally speaking, how have the residency's been, for you as a student, and how has this really allowed you to continue on through the program after you've completed the residencies? Yeah. I think the takeaway is that you you can't do this alone. You don't you can't be a spiritual director alone that we, you know, we all join this program, and then we got to know each other virtually. As you said, we arrived to campus, and there was an immediate bond because we were really stepping outside of the comfort zone big time. It's it was challenging when you sit down and and you pretend you're a directee and you have, you know, a professor there and and a couple of other classmates and you're sharing even though, you know, it's meant to be, like, you know, kind of made up in a sense.

27:31But there were tears because things come up. You just can't help it. And and the method that Divine Mercy University uses of this contemplative, evocative is is so powerful that it really puts you in contact with God. So we really bonded very quickly, and, that's continued. And and now post kinda as I get to the end of the certificate, I have one semester to go. Now I'm now we continue to meet in small groups, to, to encourage each other, to bounce ideas or situations that we've experienced, in spiritual direction. Obviously, you know, maintaining all the confidentiality. But the sense that, yeah, you can't you don't wanna do this alone. And the others just they're so inspiring. They're holy holy people who are trying and and had these had this gift.

28:31And it was fun, Greg. We had a lot of laughs, some tears, but it was it really became a family, and we continue to support each other and pray for each other. And and it wasn't for everyone too. I mean, it was clear, in the residency that there were some there who had other gifts. Yeah. But they were still benefiting a lot. God wanted them there, and they were giving their best. So, you know, I would really encourage anyone who who does feel moved to do the course to do it, whether or not ultimately you end up discerning that that is your charism. You just get so much out of it. And and the the listening skills help in every relationship that we have, whether it's with God or our spouse, the people that we live and work with.

29:30So, yeah, the residency was was really beautiful. And so helpful to have the professors right there, Greg. You know? I mean, doctor Mussel White, fellow, fellow Pietro Paoli, and others. It was great just to to listen to them and to have them, you know, in real time, give you feedback as you were directing in these sessions, and then to hang out with them during the meals and and after class and pray with them, that was very helpful. Yeah. Great. That's very good. And, I I also appreciate how you had mentioned that there are some people that go through the program and they get more clarity on maybe where they should be going, in in what God's calling them to. And and sometimes they go into the program and they think that this is actually what God is calling them to and, which is fine.

30:31Sometimes it takes a little bit of trial and error to figure out what God is saying to us. Mhmm. And many times they'll, they'll get a little bit more clarity. Oh, this isn't really what I'm meant to be doing. I should actually be doing this. Maybe I should be teaching rather than being a spiritual director. So, you know, I even wanna highlight very quickly. Let me scroll up because these are the courses that students take. But, you know, the first three courses are mostly designed I mean, there's a lot of great content in here and get a sense of human development, your second course, and how it's going to relate within the context of spiritual direction. But the first three courses are also designed to help those who are still in their discernment process of what their ministry should be.

31:26And so I always encourage people that if they really believe that spiritual direction is the the, the ministry that they're called to, but they're still trying to be sure of that, the the the first three courses can really help in providing that clarity. But not only that, it's not like they're taking it, and it's all for naught. These are, these are skills and and this is education that will apply into different, different sorts of ministries. So whether you come to realize that you're actually meant to be a catechist or maybe working within parish counseling, outside of spiritual direction or whatever it may be, what you're learning really will overlap into these other sorts of directions.

32:16So something I like to highlight to people, many times they just need a little bit more clarity on, is this going to benefit them only in spiritual direction or can it carry over? And, the first three courses are especially designed for that. Yeah. Nothing's wasted, Greg. I mean, like I told you at the beginning, I I did a it was a two months. Oh, no. I think one month course in YouTubing. And, you know, at the end of it, it was very clear this was not for me, but I got a lot out of it. Yeah. And it actually helped me discern or take another step in that discernment. So, yeah, I would, you know, I think many many priests have been encouraged to take this course, and and I would say, absolutely, do it.

33:13Ultimately, it may not be your charism, but you will get so much out of it for your own spiritual life and and these listening skills and the discernment. Yeah. Great. Very good. And I like how you put that. Nothing's wasted. Just very, very simply put, but very accurate to that. So good. You know, just looking at the time, what I'd like to do is just share a little bit more about what to expect in the program, you know, all of the little details of the time commitment and the you had mentioned that there are these breaks between the courses, and I wanna go a little bit more into that, especially because I think for many people, that can be a deciding factor. Can they commit the time? So I'm just gonna take a moment to share a little bit more about this.

34:08And, father Simon, again, if if you have any thoughts or anything that you'd like to contribute as in doing this, please, I I'd love to hear, just from your own experience as a student. So, for all of the students that are considering this, the first thing I'll mention, as we showed below, there are six courses that every student takes, and they take courses one at a time. So you're not taking multiples at a time. It's really paced in a sort of in a breathable way. There's a lot of breathing room between the courses that you're taking. But students are taking them one at a time, and they're all done online, of course. But not only that, they're also done primarily asynchronously. So in other words, I think for a lot of people, they think of an online program as being a collection of students, the cohort logging into Zoom at 12:00 or 02:00 or whatever the time may be.

35:11And that's not so much that. I believe there's some, a few moments in the program where there's some group work, and so the students do communicate with each other on when to do those, but that's, a little bit more rare. The majority of it would be the students logging into discussion boards through the can the the, platform we use is Canvas, which I found to be the most user friendly of my experiences with online education. But they're logging in through discussion boards. There are the reading materials, the modules that they'll have access to. And so this makes it much more, accessible to those that maybe have a busy home life or busy work life or busy work within ministry. And so that's one of the other reasons why we offer these courses online and asynchronously.

36:11But along with that, we we talked about the few face to face components. One would be the residencies, and I'll talk a little bit more on that once I jump back to the other slide. But they happen twice in the program, and they're spaced apart. And we make sure that the students know once in advance when and, when they will take place. But the other face to face component would be the practicum hours. And the practicum is really sort of the this is what it all leads up to. This is where you as a student, as you're completing your last two courses, will begin working with directees. You'll be working as a spiritual director, whether it's within your parish or within your apostolate or, stutters within your diocese and offering that direction and and logging those hours with a, a supervisor, which will be one of your instructors.

37:12So these two parts would be done, of course, face to face while all the courses are done online. Father Simon, if I may actually ask since I had mentioned the practicum, what has been your experience now that you are you're jump you're about to jump into your last course in January. So what has been your experience once you've actually begun your practicum hours? My experience of the the practicum is well, maybe we could explain that. Right? So the practicum is where you you start to give spiritual direction, and then you, you log those hours because you can't graduate the program until you've completed, I think, sixty hours of spiritual direction. And, as part of that, we we enter, once a month into what's called a supervision.

38:20It's more like a spiritual director circle where you come in, to a Zoom meeting, and one of the group would take turns to present part of a spiritual direction that we've had, again, maintaining all the confidentiality and changing names and so forth. But that's been really helpful to just to learn to listen to others. Not so much about what the direct key says, but it's more about how you react as a spiritual director. What's going on inside of you, because, you know, we we all have feelings and thoughts, and we can be provoked. And, so it really helps it's helped me to go to learn more and more in in real time, having others reflect on on how I've handled the situation and then learning from others as they share their experiences.

39:18It's been wonderfully helpful. And in fact, I'll continue to do that, you know, post graduation because it's just a no brainer that, you know, you can't do this alone. And to have a group where you can come in and and just check-in and and bounce difficult situations off or or just share the joy as well. It's, it's not I guess, as we were explaining that there's no governing body for spiritual direct directors out there, but it seems like a a very best ethical practice that at least Divine Mercy University highly encourages that we continue these, spiritual director circles or supervision as we continue in our ministry. Just like any counselor would. I think in counseling, there is an an a requirement to do that, but I'll continue to do that.

40:21Yeah. Yeah. Great. Very good. And I'll also mention that, because you're right that that they every student must complete sixty hours logged of their practicum. But sometimes they'll ask, what if it's taking me a little bit more time? Because I only have one directee. We can always, as a university, extend it a little bit more for you. So, I don't want you to feel like there's this clock that's ticking so loudly that it must be done precisely at a certain point. As a university, we will accommodate. We're happy to be a little bit more flexible to that, so I wouldn't be too concerned about that sort of thing either. Great. Very good. And, again, I'll just highlight the different courses that students take.

41:13And, these are all six of them, and they're also sequential. So you're taking them in this order. So, of course, there's ongoing conversion, deepening discipleship, and the foundations of spiritual direction. The second course is human development for spiritual direction. The third course is relating skills for spiritual direction, and this is where the first residency falls, and that happens during week seven. So that's about, I believe, roughly ten months from the whole start of the program if you're taking them without any sort of break. So, again, there's a lot of space between when you start and when the residencies fall. And and, again, we make sure that students know well in advance when they happen so they can let their employers or their families know.

42:03So the second or the excuse me. The fourth, course is discernment and spiritual growth theory and practice. The fifth one is advanced spiritual direction skills and practicum. And, again, this is where the second residency will happen, and that will happen during week two. And this is a launch into your practicum hours. So this is actually where those practicum hours will begin. And then the last course is advanced prayer and situations. So, again, they happen in this order. And, for the guests here, if you're curious about a little bit more about what each of these entail, we have the course descriptions on our website. You're more than welcome to to view that just to get a good sense of the content.

42:50Great. Maybe I can, highlight one thing too as well is the is the cost. Is I have a feeling the divine mercy program is, of all the spiritual direction programs out there, which I think there are not an insignificant number. Maybe it maybe a dozen in The United States. I have a feeling that the DMU course is probably on the more expensive side. But I as a as a student, I would, really I mean, obviously, I I'm I'm biased. But I think what the Divine Mercy University spiritual direction certificate brings to the table is a it's coming out of this Divine Mercy University, which started as a school of psychology, which in which is integrating, the Catholic understanding of the human person with all these wonderful new insights into psychology and how our psychology works.

43:54And and then now there's also a school of counseling. So the divine mercy, spiritual direction certificates coming out of that. So there is a wonderful foundation that we receive from, even our professors who who are trained psychologists, who are trained counselors, who are priests. So it's, I think, a very complete program. There's a lot of spiritual theology, but there's this really wonderful gift of the the the understanding of the human person, which, is is, is a great gift that we've received from, you know, the growth in the psychological sciences. But, obviously, coming from a a a Christian understanding, a Christian anthropology. And so, I know there's scholarships available, for the course.

44:57I mean, I I asked friends and family to help me, get through this course. Obviously, I don't I'm not paid. I don't have my own money, but, it's it was actually a wonderful way for people to to help my ministry to to give to to my studies. And so, yeah, just just to to say it was definitely worth the money. Yeah. You know, and I I'm I'm really glad you brought that up too because, you're right. There there are, a fair amount of spiritual direction programs out there, and, some of them are maybe a little bit less than the, in as far as price range, but this program is very unique. And so if if you're looking for something that's going to have a little bit more depth and also provide that integrative component of giving the students a foundational understanding of the human mind, but how that's going to relate in the context of spiritual direction, that's something that we are offering and we're equipping the spiritual directors into doing once they go into this, into this ministry.

46:10And it's a very powerful thing to have, especially if, you know, imagine and this happens sometimes where spiritual director is working with someone that has gone through some sort of intense trauma and crisis in his life. And, having the ability to even speak to that, and, of course, not in not as a as a therapist because spiritual direction is not therapy, but still having the ability to speak to that as the spiritual director, can be challenging. But we are really the the goal is to to equip our students into having the ability to do that. And then if if if necessary, properly refer them to a licensed professional if that's needed because of the insight that you've gotten in the program, because you have gotten a little bit more clarity on, psychology and how it's going to affect you, in this sort of ministry and working with them.

47:10So, yeah, I I think you put it very well. This this really is a unique program. There are a lot of great spiritual direction programs out there, but for those that want something with that component, that integrative component, also including Ignatian spirituality, Franciscan spirituality, Saint John of the Cross. This is something that we're we're offering all of the students as they go through this. Great. Very good. Let's see. You know, we had talked about the courses. I also mentioned very quickly about the residencies, and we went to great detail of this. But, the the course the the residencies do happen on campus. We're located in Sterling, Virginia, so that's about a forty five minute drive outside of DC.

48:04But for students that fly in, they're flying in through Dulles, and Dulles is about a five minute drive from the campus. It's very close. You're not having to jump on the highway to get to campus. It's right around the corner. And then also students are lodged next door to Marriott Hotel. I believe it's actually close enough that some of the students will just walk from the hotel to the campus if they prefer to do that. Oh, yeah. Yeah. In fact, Greg, you know, arriving to Dallas Airport, we just hopped on a shuttle. We got taken straight to the hotel just five minutes away. Yeah. And then each morning, we would just walk over. It was about a five minute walk to the DMU University. So it was very easy in that sense.

48:48Yeah. Yeah. It's I that's something that a lot of them say how thankful they are for. Just that convenience of, everything being so so close together. So along with that, let's see, the the residencies happen from it officially launches on a Wednesday evening, but that's more of a social event where the students are just gathering together with the instructors. We host dinner here. They cover, very quickly what's to expect between Thursday and Sunday. Thursday morning is when everything officially launches where you have your lectures and your group sessions, and then that goes into Sunday, around lunchtime. And we offer the sacraments here. Mass is always offered every day. And, again, this is just a great ex experience for the students to finally get together and do this at the same time.

49:47Oh, and one last thing about the residencies because this is a common question that people have. What if I can't make it because, there's an event going on? What if the first residency is going to happen when I have a wedding to go to? Or what if an emergency happens and I just can't make it? That's fine. Life happens. Things that we celebrate happen, things that are difficult happen, and we need to attend to those. And we understand that students get a leave of absence if they want to. They can in fact, every student has three leave of absences they can use. And so if a residency is going to happen at a point where, you know, you just won't be able to make that because of a more important pressing matter, then you can certainly use a leave of absence and pause the program.

50:38And then when you're ready to jump back into it, you could certainly get reinstated and and move on when you're ready. Yeah. I I found the the flexibility very helpful. I had a family emergency, pop up. I had already had my tickets for the second residency, and and I and they I was able to postpone, that that semester. I traveled had to travel back home to New Zealand. And, actually, my my mother got very sick, and I was able to spend, a week with her before she passed. And all the folks who were at the residency, my friends, they were praying, and I was keeping them up to date. So I felt very supported by that. And then the administration was very supportive and and allowed me to take that leave of absence.

51:37And I found too, Greg, that god's timing is perfect, that, you know, when I'm in session, I I I find the time. I have the time. When I'm not studying, whether that's two months break, I'm thinking, how do they ever study? There's always so much going on. Right? But god but god is good. And and even when I had to travel, it was amazing how, things always worked out. I always had that little that gap, to to read. And it pushed me too even, you know, sometimes I was on the plane. I was, you know, reading away there, but it was good. It really, it pushed me in a good way, and and god was was behind the whole thing to making making things happen. Yeah. Great. Great. Yeah. I appreciate you sharing that.

52:32It it also just speaks to the community that people gain when they're active in this program with their cohort. So very good. So I also wanna share very quickly the time commitment, the time frame of the program. So it's a two year program in total. And as I mentioned earlier, students are taking one course at a time, so one course per term. And, usually and this is not set in stone, but as far as course work, or time that they're putting in per week, usually, it's somewhere between six to nine hours, maybe seven to ten. It could vary based on the student, their learning style, and, and that sort of thing. It could also depend on the course. Some of the information might be familiar to you.

53:21You might be able to breeze through that. There might be other courses where it might be a little bit more dense or brand new information. But generally speaking, I would say if you're looking into this program, to look at your own schedule. See if you could commit around nine hours per week, if that would be doable for you, if there's any sort of flexibility in your schedule that would permit that. And if so, then, and this is something that you're called to, then I'd be happy to go a little bit more deeper with you on a, one on one. Now along with that, we had mentioned that there is breathing room between the courses. There are breaks. So the pattern goes that students take one eight week course, and then they jump into a break.

54:06And that break happens for about eight, nine, ten weeks depending on where we are in the academic calendar. But this does give some, again, some breathing room. These breaks happen during major holidays. So during holy week, during Christmas week, during Thanksgiving, also during the summer from July until August, there's going to be some downtime. But this also serves as a good point for students to replenish their funds. So you're not having to pay course by course nonstop for the courses that you're taking, but these breaks will give you a chance to, really build back the, expenses as you're going through this since it's a pay as you go program. Is there a question there in the chat for you?

54:59Yeah. So let's see. I'd be happy to answer that. So Dan says, it sounds like father is able to do spiritual direction without yet completing the course and receiving his certificate. Is that correct? Yeah. I mean, the in fact, let me say the spiritual direction itself is not a ministry where you have to apply for certification the same way that a counselor needs to apply for licensure. So there's no sort of officiality in that sense where you have to apply through the diocese or through a parish. In this case, once you complete the program, what you're doing is earning a completion a certificate of completion, but it shows the credentials that you know how to proceed as a spiritual director.

55:50So we have people that go into this program that are active spiritual directors, but they go into this because they want more formal training. But also, again, before you even graduate, you do have your practicum. So that's actually a required part where you will be active as a spiritual director before completing the program, and as a tool to get you into the completion stage. That's right, Greg. Yeah. From, the May so the so the fifth term the fifth of six terms of the certificate, that's when, we're really encouraged to to start, offering spiritual direction. Although, like you say, I mean, I was already giving spiritual direction, beforehand, although I I'm kind of almost ashamed of not ashamed.

56:46I'm sure God worked through me. But now knowing you know, having learning so much about what it truly is, I'm almost a bit embarrassed. But yes. And and like you say, you know, there's no governing body, and and people people are probably already approaching you asking for advice or or looking for counsel. And so but, yeah, like, in terms of the spiritual action certificate, from the fifth term on, that's when, you know, we're really encouraged. And and like I said, that's when God started really sending people to me to help. So this really is a God thing. And I had some classmates who who got all anxious and wanted to make business cards, and I'm a spiritual director. But from what I remember in the in the course and in my experiences, like, you don't need to worry about that.

57:42God will send you the people he wants to send you. You don't need to be going advertising. So Yeah. Yeah. Good. Does that help, Dan? Yeah. Okay. He says thank you. Yes. Great. Great question, Dan. So, you know, we're we're coming to the top of the hour. I wanna make sure I'm being sensitive to everyone's time, but, I'd love to open up the floor for any other questions. So, you know, as I'm opening up the floor, I'll just share very quickly the cost as well. And, so as you're seeing in front of you and by the way, I do wanna highlight there is room to bring the cost per course down. But the cost as you're seeing it in front of you with $7.78 per course, and each residency is a thousand. And that thousand will cover your lodging.

58:38It'll cover most of your meals. It'll cover your materials. So I believe the only thing that the students are responsible for would be their travel and, three dinners while they're here for the residencies. But everything else is covered there. As far as the cost per course, it can be reduced. If you work in ministry, if you and by that, I mean, even if you're a volunteer with your parish. So you don't have to be a consecrated person, a priest, or anything like that. Though if you are, that's room to bring the cost down. But even if you are a parishioner and you're in good standing with your parish, we can bring the cost down by 10%. So that would bring it down to about 700. So if that's you, if you fit into that, let me know, and we can we can discuss how we can move forward in reducing the cost for you.

59:35And again, Greg, I would just say, you know, if god really wants this, like, he'll provide. Because you're looking at, like I mean, all up, it's, like, $10,000 to do to do the course. And Yeah. Well, I'd say less than that. Probably about 6 and a half, looking at it. I mean, depending on aside from the courses. Yeah. Maybe a little bit less. Yeah. But yeah. Got Father Simon, it looks like you froze. Okay. Sorry, father Simon. It looks like you froze. I'm gonna wait a moment, just to make sure. Okay. Okay. Well, father Simon, it looks like he froze there in the middle of what you were saying. Hopefully, you'll jump back in, but I and I don't know if you can hear me right now, but it looks like he's gonna jump back in.

1:00:51But I'll I'll share for everybody, that's here. We do have a start date coming up for January 11, and, so that's going to be our spring term. We're still enrolling for that. There's still time to apply. I would suggest submitting an application, because it will, at the very least, reserve a seat for you for the next cohort. So I would do that sooner than later. If it turns out we need to defer you, that's fine. We can do that. And we even have a code for the application form. Usually, it's $25, but we can waive it for you. So there's a there's a code in the, the bottom red screen. Father Simon's return. Great. Very good. Yeah. The close there. I know. The the the the Internet drops here in Silicon Valley.

1:01:41Go figure. Good. And you were in the middle of something. Was there any I just wanted to give you a chance to finish your thought for everyone. Oh, yes. Thank you. What I was just saying, you know, it's a it's a beautiful ministry of spiritual direction. Obviously, we're not doing it for the money. I mean, I don't I don't charge if people want to to help me out with a stipend that's certainly accepted. So I really think it's a god thing, Craig. And, obviously, we need to pay the professors and the facility and but god god provides for sure. Yeah. So I I wouldn't let the, the fees be a deterrent, to anyone. Yeah. Yeah. And, again, for for everyone that's here and that will see this, because I know that could be a deciding factor.

1:02:37Is this affordable? Will this, can I make can this be doable? Have a conversation with me. I'm I'm happy to discuss what this will actually look like course by course. I'd love to hear about what sort of obstacles that you could be going into, you know, share as much as as you're comfortable sharing regarding the finances. But, again, this is something that can be done. So yeah. So we are about five minutes past the, past the hour, so we went a little bit further than intended. But, again, I'll just share that the the next start date is January 11. If you're interested in applying, I'd be happy to walk you through that process. It's much shorter than you might think even though you're you're applying into a a university, this application process is, very short and can be done in a very short period of time.

1:03:37So, father Simon, thank you so much for being here. It it's really been a blessing just getting your, your view on what it looked like for you as a student and sharing that with everyone. Thank you, Greg. For me, it's been a blessing too just to remember and and bring to the hearts all these wonderful blessings. So I thank you for the opportunity, and and I really encourage and, those who are discerning whether to begin the spiritual direction certificate to, yeah, to be, to be courageous and and certainly count on our prayers on my prayers. And I'm sure, Greg, you'll be praying for them too. Yes. So thank you again. Yes. And thank you for all you do there at Divine Mercy University. Thank you.

1:04:27Thank you for your, your vocation. Alright. Take care, everyone. God bless.