SDC webinar with guest alumni Eileen Wieck

0:06As I said, welcome so much, to this time that we have together, this webinar. My name is Maria Brackett. I'm the program director of the, spiritual direction certificate here at Divine Mercy University. And we have the pleasure to, have with us tonight Eileen Wick, who's an alumni, alumnus of the university, who the certificate program. And, you know, there's different ways that we try to just get the word out about our program, but one of it the ways that we do is having these webinars where we bring in a current student or alumni and also even sometimes our faculty members, just to have them speak about their experience and kinda see, the spiritual direction certificate from another lens.

0:56So we will it's kind of like a mix. I'll be interviewing Eileen, and then, we'll be talking about the program. And I've got a few slides here, so if there's different topics that come up, I can bring them up and just to kinda give you information about the program. So, Eileen, it's so good to have you here. I've introduced myself. Why don't you just introduce yourself a little bit? Tell us a little bit about yourself and Sure. Sure. Well, I noticed that somebody from Alberta is on, and so that made me really happy. I am originally from Edmonton, Alberta, Canada, and I moved to California about twenty years ago. So I've lived here in the Bay Area with my husband, Vincent, and we have six kids.

1:39They kinda span all ages. Our youngest is five and our oldest is 20. So I live here in the you're from Edmonton too. Yay. Okay. Not a lot of people know where Edmonton is, so that makes me really happy. So, yeah, Edmonton, born and raised and now Californian through and through. So I've been working in ministry here for the last twenty years, and I was just so excited to take this program. I know we're gonna get a little bit deeper into that, but my main thing is that I'm a mom. I'm a homeschool mom to my beautiful kids, and I also have the joy of working in women's ministry. Thank you so much, Eileen. Yeah. Exactly. Eileen is a good representative of some of the participants that we have in the program.

2:22Right? A mom that has been involved in, you know, the life of the church and just kind of giving back and and kind of found a new niche here, in spiritual direction. So we'll get more into that as we go along. So let me let me send you my first question here, Eileen. So what was your just kind of your overall experience in the certificate as you went through it? My overall experience was that it surpassed my dreams and my hopes. My experience was and I know people say this a lot, but I do feel that it was life altering for me. I wasn't anticipating how much growth I would experience through the program. I knew that I was going into this for many reasons. We'll get into later, but I didn't anticipate what a gift this would be, not just for my directees and my family, but for me personally.

3:26The entire experience for me, the entire experience from beginning to end was phenomenal. And that's probably why I'm with you tonight. Right? I chased Maria down a few months ago, and I was like, you know, Maria, if I could stay at DMU forever, I would. And that's saying a lot as a busy mom with six kids, but I I really loved my experience there. And, I almost didn't I almost didn't do it. So Yeah. It's kind of interesting, right, how we start something with a little inclination of, yeah, this is something maybe I should do or I'm interested in and just how it kind of unfolds as we go along. Right? Exactly. I I really had misconceptions going in. Mhmm. And all of my fears were allayed. Yeah.

4:11Mhmm. It's really beautiful. And your since well, since we're on this topic, in your sense or your calling to be a spiritual director, like, how did you feel when you went into the program? And Mhmm. And how did that kinda grow? Sure. Well, a little bit of background. I actually I have been a spiritual director for thirty years now. So, I started very young when I was 18. I wanna say 10 just to make myself feel younger, but, no, I was 18 and which is very, very young to begin that type of ministry. Looking back, knowing what I know now, I think it was simply too young. Although there was obviously something there that my my local spiritual director and priest saw in me, although it wasn't ready for that kind of ministry.

4:56But he saw something there, and that was that first maybe resonance with the call. But it definitely deepened and developed through the years. So I had been, serving as a spiritual director twenty eight years when I met the STC program, but I knew there was something missing. And I I couldn't I couldn't tell you what it was. I didn't really know. I just I had a thirst for more. I wanted to give my directees the very best self that I could bring, and I didn't really know what that was. I I had misconceptions about what spiritual direction was. I thought that if I saw traction and growth in them and that I was helping them, that it must mean that I'm a good spiritual director. And although I think that I did serve well and the Lord used that in many ways, knowing what I know now, I have a very different understanding of it.

5:46And that's really common because we didn't have really solid training for spiritual directors, you know, when I started. I did have training, but it was minimal, maybe a week, a year, and it was it was beautiful and engaging. And I loved that ministry, but I knew there was something deeper, something that I was thirsting for, and I couldn't put my finger on it. So we'll get into it later. I don't wanna give it all away, but that's a bit of a bit of background there, Maria. Thank you so much, Eileen. And so well, you spoke a little bit about what drew you to this program. Right? Mhmm. Just that kind of a need to want to get more training, more formation. Yeah. There was definitely a thirst. I I love to I'm one of those, I know my Canadians on here will understand this term.

6:36I'm a keener. Like, an like, a I nerd out on knowledge. I love to learn, and so that was the first thing that drew me. The second thing that drew me specifically to this program here in The US was the beautiful understanding of the human person with an integrated vision of the human person with a special nod in particular to mental health and psychological understanding of the human person, that Catholic meta model. That was very attractive to me. I think especially because of my my twenty years here in California and perhaps just, you know, as as time goes on and as I matured, I would see more and more mental health cases coming up that I would then feel a little bit lost, like I was in the weeds.

7:23And then I would use my my keener senses to go and study all that I could study, but I was starting to leak out into a modality that spiritual direction wasn't. Mhmm. And I was also feeling a little bit lost not having kind of that team approach of other psychologists or therapists around me to help. And so I was feeling this need of my people. And so when I heard about Divine Mercy University with this kind of special, special way that they view the human person, there was such a pull in me. Like, yes. This is the place for me that has a good integration of the spiritual life and the psychological and mental health of our people and also an understanding of where my scope begins and ends as a spiritual director.

8:07That was very helpful for me. And so I knew this was a program for me, but, like I said, I almost didn't do it. It was, kind of in the back of my mind ruminating. And I kept telling myself, I'll do it in a couple of years. I'll do it in a couple of years. At that time, I still had a three year old, and I homeschool my kids. I mean, you know, if there's anybody that's a poster child for not being in school, it was me. You know? And I really wanted to make sure I was getting my own oxygen and taking good care of my kids, so I just kept putting it off. And then one day, out of the blue, I I just thought, you know, I'm just gonna send them a message and and see when their next class is. And it was just one of those god moments.

8:48You know, I had applied and everything got rolling so quickly and the doors opened so quickly. I think god gave me a little nudge, and I'm so glad that he did. The timing was perfect for me. And as I said, those fears that I had, especially about it being like an unmanageable load for me, those fears came to pass, and I began to see that the way that it's tailored. This program is university level rich, deep, meaty content, but it's presented and given to you in such a manageable way. For an online program, I think it's a phenomenal program. It works so well with my life and my schedule. Gave me the freedom that I needed to take care of my kids and my family and my other work the way I needed to and help me carve out the space and time that I needed to to study and to go deep with the material.

9:42Thanks so much, Eileen. Yeah. That, there's there's some things that I just wanna talk about that you kind of presented there and maybe mentioned. Right? Like, the meta model, the Catholic Christian meta model of the human person, which is at the heart of the university. Right? And, this meta model, we're looking for a little a shorter title for it, but we haven't found one yet. But, basically one up. Yeah. We're doing we're we're doing a whole survey here at the university to come up with something. But, basically, it's like a model of the how of how the human person flourishes. Right? And that's why we like to think of the spiritual direction certificate as as, you know, training people to help others flourish in their relationship with the Lord.

10:24And so the meta model just takes Catholic Christian philosophy, theology, and psychology and just shows the integration, of all these in, you know, sciences and, you know or philosophy with, the human sciences and creates just a real picture of who we are as human people taken from the great classical tradition and the tradition, you know, the Catholic Christian tradition. And so we call it the meta model, and, basically, there's a big book about it. You can find it on Amazon, but it goes through, like, what are the philosophical principles of this tradition, and what we understand about the person, whether the theological principles, what are the psychological principles, and how do they all work together.

11:18And what we encourage our students to do, and I'm sure you experience this all also Eileen in the certificate, is first of all, see that whole person who is in front of you. See all those different dimensions. And then you work from your place of expertise, which as spiritual directors is really, you know, helping that person to grow in their relationship with with the Lord, sometimes referred to, you know, as their spiritual life or their interior life and to grow that. Right? So, that's our niche as spiritual directors. And that's where that's where the program the program really gives you the knowledge and then the skills, change you in the skills also. And like Eileen mentioned, giving you also just a strong sense of your identity as a spiritual director.

12:10Where what is your field kind of look like? Where is your what are the things that you can do? Where can you help and where you can't and how to work with other people that can't, and things like that. So it is like Eileen said, it's it's a very, there's a lot there's a lot as you go through the program. Very rich. Okay. So anything you wanted to add to that, Eileen? No. That's great. Yeah. Question. So, you know, as a layperson, you know, you talk to us a little bit how you've been drawn into this ministry and everything. And and it's not you know, I try to remind people. In fact, I might even have a slide on this, about spiritual direction. And because sometimes people are yeah. These are what I call the myths around spiritual direction.

13:05Our priests are all priests are spiritual directors and and but laypeople cannot be spiritual directors. And, actually, there's a great document of the Catholic church written in 2011, which is what I quote here, the priest, minister of divine mercy, and aid for confessors and spiritual directors. And so there's some great quotes on this. The second part the first part of this document is about confession and confess and confessors. And the second part are for priests as spiritual directors, but they take the document and they use it to kinda talk about the tradition of spiritual direction in the church in the Catholic church, and, which has one of the most richest traditions of spiritual direction.

13:51Right? And so it says here, while spiritual direction was always imparted by monks and priests, other members of the faithful, men and women who offer the service of counsel along the journey of holiness. Right? And you think of the early desert fathers and mothers. They weren't religious. I always like to point out that John Saint John Paul the second's first spiritual director was a layman. And that's really the one that he really talks about who taught him, how to pray and to and to enter into contemplative prayer. Right? So beautiful. Right? So this this is a possibility, and there have been lay spiritual directors. Sometimes we don't even realize that they exist because we think of Saint Catherine Sienna, and we think, oh, she was a nun, but, actually, she wasn't.

14:45She was a layperson that dedicated herself to the Lord and lived at home her whole life and right? And so there's many examples of that. I'm both a Catholic and and the Protestant tradition. So, you know, I'd like to just remind people that laypeople can be spiritual directors. They've always been spiritual directors. It is important in this document that whether it's a priest or religious or a laypeople that all the people get training for this. And and that's what this document also says. You know? It says in present circumstances, while there is an increasing demand for spiritual direction on the part of the faithful, there is likely, likewise, an increasing need to better prepare priests to give spiritual direction.

15:37Such training would enable them to afford spiritual counsel with greater diligence, discernment, and spiritual accompaniment. So we do have an I Eileen, I don't know if in your cohort there were any priests. Oh, yes. We had we had at least four to begin five to begin with and three to graduate with. Mhmm. Yeah. So that's usually the cohorts are like that. It's a mix of laymen and women, priests, also a lot of permanent deacons Mhmm. And, sometimes religious sisters consecrated men and women, and also ministers from other faiths. Mhmm. You know, people other Christians that want to learn within this tradition. So thank you. That was an that was a good little road to go down. So, Eileen, one of the things, you know, that we talked about a couple months ago was just you were just explaining to me how you're using your training.

16:35And I just thought that that was just so interesting, unique, and I just wanted to give you an opportunity to just tell people about that a little bit more. Sure. Sure. You know, all good things sometimes take time to come together. But about seven or eight years ago, I dreamed up of an an apostolate for women that would gather women kind of like the visitation moment. Like, imagine Mary and Elizabeth and what that relationship must have been like with the Lord and with their security in the Lord and their belovedness and who they are and how that must have changed the dynamic of female relationships. Or to think about fast forwarding and imagining what the female relationships were like among the women that were following Jesus, especially when Mary came into the scene, and what those relationships are really meant to be for us as women.

17:26So this was a personal passion for mine for a lot of years. I really believe that as women, we can be each other's best allies, but it's one of those things that gets attacked so often in society because of our fragmented identity as women. And so we get tempted to compete, control, compare, gossip, backstab, and divide what is meant to be such a beautiful gift. And, you know, as you were speaking about spiritual directors, I was just going to that in my mind and thinking of what it must have been like to get spiritual direction from our lady, you know, when they were waiting, you know, for Pentecost and how she must have counseled them. And so, really, this love in my heart for women, it started to grow, and I started leading other women through what we call the forty weeks, which is like a deepening of the exam and prayer in their life.

18:15And from that, we started to grow like a community of women. From that, I had a dream of helping those women to grow in their identity through formation, events, pilgrimages. We took a a group to the Holy Land last year. So we have this whole community for women, but more deeply and more personally, my love for being a spiritual director turned into my own business that I created as an offshoot of all things women. It's called direction for your soul. You know, we started out this conversation with just explaining that that that team approach was really important for me knowing that I could rely on a a therapist, a psychologist, a supportive priest, other spiritual directors, maybe have few coaches that I could work with.

18:59So I had this kind of vision in my mind of a group of people all around me that we would work to serve a person's needs according to wherever they're at at that point in their life. And I really wanted that for myself, and I also had a desire to provide that for others. Just the sense of providing for my girlfriends that were in similar situations to me, but I saw that they had skills. I I saw that they had talent, that they could be speakers. They could be, you know, prayer intercessors. They could be life coaches. Some of them are also spiritual directors, and I had a desire to create a platform or create agency for their talents to shine. So we created All Things Women and then later the LLC.

19:42The LLC came after I graduated from SDC. Originally, it was just a way for myself to be compensated for my work. Of course, I work donation based, but because I see plenty of directees now and as a mom, I just ask them to offer what they can so that I can support my family. And so that became a business, and it had an offshoot there where we have agreements now with coaches, spiritual directors. We have people who can come in and do inner healing prayer with our clients. So when people come to our website, they find us and they see our team, and they they see that there's so much opportunity for them. They can speak with somebody who has skills maybe in nutrition. They can speak with someone who maybe has skills in executive functioning for special needs.

20:29You know? There's a lot of people here in the Bay Area in this tech environment that struggle with attention deficit disorder and they struggle, and these things can kinda blend into the spiritual life. So if I'm seeing a client and I see that they have a struggle that's really kind of getting in the way of their spiritual growth, I'm able then to refer out to a co partner of mine, really, and say this is a wonderful woman that you could work with here. Or maybe to get some some great body care and get kind of your your full self integrated, you could work with our specialist in nutrition. So we work together like a team, and we also work like a family where we move forward in our formation together.

21:08So this is kind of how I'm using my skills, and it's just as I said, it's starting to kind of flow into what the Lord is doing. It's become kind of a national thing with all things women, and it's just been a huge blessing to me and to those that we work with. Thank you so much for sharing that, Eileen. I don't know. I'm gonna talk a little bit right now. Maybe you would you wanna put into the chat maybe the website or a link where they could if they were interested in looking into this. It's called All Things Women. I'm it seems like it's for women. So Well, yes. The direction for your soul is for men and women, and we actually have a few priests on there as well, including a few of my fellow graduates from DMU.

21:51And so direction for your soul is for anyone, but then we have a special community out of that that's called all things women just for the ladies. Okay. Great. Thank you. Yeah. Put that information in the chat in case anyone wants that. It's always so interesting for me as a director of the spiritual direction certificate program just to meet our alumni as they're going out into the world. We have, at this point in time, a 150 people that have graduated from the program, and they just are doing all different things. So we have a deacon, who who runs a retreat center for his diocese, and he and a couple other of the alumni of the program have gotten together and have created retreats. And, they're just supporting the retreats that he has so that there are spiritual directors on staff for people to meet with.

22:42Yeah. Peep I mean, just getting drawn our alumni getting drawn to certain specific people, like working with women that have suffered, abortion or miscarriage and, you know, as a spiritual director, just helping them through that time. So it's just really beautiful to see the way that the Lord is moving with each each graduate of the program and kind of taking them into their place, to serve and to help others. So super beautiful. So, Eileen, what did you find most helpful about the program? And you talked about the growth that you experienced and just kind of that, but what did you find kind of maybe going through the program that was most helpful? Maybe not it could be the content or it could be, you know, maybe the way that it was given to you or something like that.

23:41Sure. There's many things. I would say the first thing is actually of a spiritual nature. I found that the Divine Mercy University had a very specific way to continually call us back to scripture. Mhmm. Even in each assignment that we had, we were often asked to quote or cite or reference this the scriptures. And I didn't realize until DMU how little I was really soaking up scripture. I thought I was. You know, I'd read my bravery. I'd read I'd read the daily mass readings. I'd do my gospel reflection, but I always felt there was something missing. And because it was so integrated in our assignments, it actually changed the way I attend souls. Now scripture is just coming. It is just there.

24:28It's it's the living word, and I have a new relationship with that. So I just hats off to Divine Mercy University, first of all, for bringing that forefront and center. The second thing that was very helpful was the content was very applicable. Every reading that was chosen meant something for us. We weren't drowned in all sorts of reading that we had go to go through that wasn't something we could apply in our actual practice. That was incredible. Whoever, Maria, chose the readings and the selections and how well they continued together to help us to understand the lesson. I also really at first, I was like, oh, a little nervous to do the posting and the replying to the questions, but I started to see a pattern of genius.

25:15The holy spirit was clearly behind what we were being asked to discuss and even how we were being asked to discuss it to really draw out the very best assimilation of what we had read. The other thing that I was pondering the other day that was probably my highlight was the residency. Being able to practice with other students and get real time feedback, that was incredible. The instructors as well, I felt, you know, I was a little worried about getting drowned. You know? It's gonna be university. It's gonna be big. I'm gonna have to keep up a pay. I was so nervous, to be honest, and I found that I was just among friends. Each of the instructors became like a friend. They were very attentive to me.

25:57They were able to answer my questions in a really timely manner. I really felt well accompanied. So I think those were the the main things that were were just stellar in my opinion. Thank you. That so that brings up the residencies, and I do have a, a slide on these just to talk them about them a little bit. I thank you so much for those reflections, though, Eileen, because I think those are just some beautiful things. And I and, I love what you said about scripture, because I definitely see it in the program as I go through and, you know, work in different courses or reach out to students. But it's neat how you, it changed kind of how you use scripture, and your and your it sounds like your encounter with it too.

26:47So that's beautiful. So the residencies like Eileen was talking about are two four day. There's two of them, and they're four day. They start on a Wednesday evening, and they run to lunch on Sunday. And we we're right by, International Airport, Dallas, and major highway. So there it's really easy to get here and really easy to get out of here. And we house the students at a local hotel, which is, like, about a five minute, maybe six or six minute walk from the university. They also offer a shuttle when it's like bad weather. And they also shuttle people from the airport to the hotel. This is all part of what we pay for when we when we make our contract with this hotel. So the the residencies, as you can kinda see by the picture, this is, you know, bringing together, your cohort for some intense training, where, like, Eileen was talking about.

27:45You're, you you start with some classes in the morning, and then pretty soon after that, you bread get into small groups where you're given scenarios and use faculty member is always present in each of these small groups, and they kinda coach you through it. And they, you know, for the first residency is really about learning some of the basic listening skills, and the second residency is kind of more of the complex skills needed, for spiritual direction. A lot about boundaries and keeping that relationship, in the place that it belongs, right, and how to do that. And, so these happen in the third course, at the end of the third course, and at the beginning of the fifth course. So, basically, if you're going through the program, the program takes you two years, so it's one residency a year.

28:37And, you know, there's a cost for the residency, a cost for the courses. So I'll I'll show that to you a little bit later so that you can see the breakdown for that. Anything else you wanna say about the residencies, Eileen? Yes. I do. Like I said, it was one of my favorite parts. And even as you're going through it, I was just feeling how much I missed those experiences. I would say I wasn't anticipating the bond that would be created. I mean, there is a bond as we're replying to one another's posts, but when you do your first residency, there was such a bond among us. We are friends for life. We still WhatsApp chat each other all the time, our our cohort. And what I wasn't anticipating, you know, I went into it thinking a lot of fear, to be honest, thinking, oh goodness, you know, I I can do fine one on one with a person when there's no camera and lights around.

29:31Right? I'll be just great. But if the the fear that I had of what's it gonna be like one on one with a person with an instructor there, You know, that was the the fear of, oh, I'm I'm not I'm not gonna I'm gonna be in my head. And that was something that our instructors did a great job forming in us to really let go to the holy spirit. And just seeing spiritual direction is a prayer of the church. And I thought, well, I don't have to worry if I'm praying. It's me and the Lord and this directee, and I'm just wanting to see the father's heart for the soul. And so that that really changed all of those fears. So I went into my first residency thinking it was going to be very difficult, and I was wrong.

30:12It was, again, very rich and challenging, but it was so manageable. In fact, for me, going to the residency felt like mommy spa for the week. I almost didn't wanna come home because it was so rich. I was growing so deeply, And the bond that we many of us are still close, as I said, some of them have become my closest friends that are now working with me in in in what I do, and I'm just so grateful for the residencies. Yeah. That bond is really amazing, and I see it across for everyone, just how they form that relationship. And they do stay in touch with each other. They form peer groups to kinda support each other as they go out as spiritual directors. And, yeah, it's just they do. They're great friendships.

30:59And I remember one of the, I think, one of the alumni that I interviewed at one point in time, Natalie Jackson. She said to me that she when her experience was when she came to the residency was, like, she walked in and just started talking to people, and she's like, I found my people. People? Yeah. That's what she said, which I thought was so neat. She was like, you know, I thought that it was just me in this world that felt this way about things that I found a whole group of people that were just you know? And that was, interesting to set a real confirmation for her that she was, in the right ministry. No. Was there anything that was difficult for you in the program? Sure. Looking back, what I thought was difficult didn't need to be difficult.

31:55So I'm really glad you asked that question. For those of you that are discerning going in, I think my piece of advice would be to relax and let go of the the feeling of perfectionism, which I own. I went in really, really nervous in my first class. Like, I'd said it'd been twenty five years since I've been in school. And that first class was the hardest of the six for me because I went in a little bit, like, uptight, worried about getting it right, making sure I got my assignment just so, and I really didn't need to be. I think that throughout the whole experience, I started to gain confidence and realize, like, the end goal here is that we wanna understand that you've assimilated the information and you understand it clearly in your post.

32:46You do not have to stress. And I was stressing because I had never been in a class like this before, and so it was the simplicity of just that first class. There was a little bit more reading in the first class, and it was learning how to cite and reference things. And looking back, I I did not need to make it so complicated. And so I would really just give that piece of advice, like, do not worry. Your instructors are there to help you. And after that, it was a breeze. Once I kinda let go of that and I realized not what they're looking for, this is like don't worry at all. I just found it quite a manageable program. And, again, six kids in homeschooling. I feel like if anyone, you know, can if I can do it, anyone can do it.

33:29It's really it's really not hard in that way. Exactly. And it's it is we do really did try when we created the program to put together kind of a mix of you know, we don't require any degrees to come into the program. We just are looking for a certain level of theological knowledge and faith life, right, that you've been living. And, and so when we talked about kind of the academic level of the program, we know we we knew we'd be working with a very diverse audience. Right? And but we did wanna put a certain academic rigor to it just because because of the seriousness of the ministry and also just to facilitate kind of the communication online. Right? That there'd be a standard that people would be held to.

34:21It's just to facilitate everyone kind of trying to meet that standard. And, so you'll be happy to hear, Eileen, we just just finished updating SDC 100, and we actually created a little two pager that summarizes what you need to do as far as, like Beautiful. Beautiful. We took out all the other information that we felt like that was just creating more noise than anything. And, so it's much more streamlined. Even with that noise and as you're speaking, I I have to say it was actually an attractive part of the program in the end for me because I really felt like it gave me order to developing my thoughts. Mhmm. And so and it it actually gave me the sense to what I'm doing is important. It also gave me the confidence coming back to realize what I just went through was valuable skills, and what I offer my directees is valuable.

35:16Mhmm. So that was that was really helpful for me. Yeah. It's not a fluffy program. We don't It's not a fluffy program. I mean, the it's, you know, the sacred ministry of spiritual direction is just you're in sacred ground. Right? Mhmm. Helping someone else in their relationship with the lord. And so just giving it that seriousness. And and, really, you know, one of the objectives that we have with the program is is really training professional spiritual directors. You know, it's not like spiritual directors to have briefcases. We're not talking about that. But people that know who they are and they carry out their ministry with responsibility, understanding, you know, the limits and understanding where they have their expertise and their spirit.

36:00Right? And just a lot of different things that come along. Yep. That's exactly what you aimed for, and it is what you created. That's great. Yeah. It was created by a team, so that also is great because everyone kind of put in their their their skills and their, expertise from their little corner. Right? Beautiful. Yes. We had, you know, we had spiritual directors from the Catholic tradition and some protestant traditions, but people that have been giving spiritual direction for years and years and years Mhmm. And priests and also psychologists and, and then educators. Educators that, have taught in the classroom and educators that have taught online and have designed curriculum for online.

36:47Online. So it's a team that really created it, and I think that just shows up with the quality and just how kind of, like, nailing all the different aspects of this whole learning. Mhmm. We were the first spiritual direction program to be created for online learning. Wow. You know? We kind of, like, took we we were bold and said, this could work. We could do it. We can do it. Let's do it. Because there's so many spirit people that maybe feel called to be spiritual directors, but just don't have the time to go away two weeks, a year, or, or need you know, maybe they're living in a more remote area. Just need the accessibility that online learning offers them. So we didn't wanna sacrifice in quality, but we wanted to Yes.

37:36And you and that's that's a very interesting point that you bring up. I think that was one of my concerns going into. I knew that I needed an online program, but my experiences with online learning had been in the past at times that I wasn't really feeling like I belonged. I wasn't really part of it. I wasn't really well accompanied. None of that existed. This I I'm really surprised to hear that this is the first online program for spiritual directors because I I didn't have any negatives with it. It was I was so engaged with my group and with my instructor, and I also had the freedom and the benefits that I wanted from an online program so that I could I actually had, like, a little routine that just made my family blend so well where I was up in the morning doing my reading, earlier than the kids.

38:22And in the afternoon, I would do my post, and my kids didn't really even notice the change, you know, except the change inside of me maybe. Right? Mhmm. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. It just does it does help you to kind of and even the way that it's created, like, asynchronous learning, that it's not like you have have to get onto a class every week Right. Or a couple hours, but, really, you're able to do the assignments when you can, just respecting those deadlines, those weekly deadlines. But, yeah, it just offers a lot of more flexibility there. I'm laughing because I just had one little I had one little snag, and it was during, during one of our practical experiences where we had to Zoom record.

39:03And, it's just a funny, like, all set. I was actually in Spain that week, at my niece's profession of vows. Mhmm. And, you know, timing, we had to meet as a team. And so the nuns there set me up in their recording room. And, you know, we're doing this kind of, play experience. Right? As a spiritual director, we are pretending, but we're really, you know, invested in the emotion, and we're given a scenario that is not our own life, but we're acting this out to help each other to deepen those listening skills. And so the nuns didn't have a lock on their door. And that day, my my vignette was that I was a terribly distraught woman, you know, over, my marriage. And so all of a sudden, one by one, the nuns are coming in, not realizing I'm on Zoom.

39:50It's being recorded. I couldn't stop it, and I have to kinda play act this situation. So that was, like, my little hilarious open end TMU. But even that, you know, here I am traveling in Spain, and I was able to access what I needed and get it done and have a funny story to tell at the end. But it was so helpful to have it be online for me. I I wouldn't be here or have gone through the program had it not been. That's yeah. That is funny. Yeah. Then there are people that, you know, have someone been saying, I'm going on a cruise with my husband, but I wanna, you know, I wanna stay up. So I'm gonna get the I'm gonna get I'm gonna pay for Wi Fi in the cruise or you know, it does help you. I mean, the instructors are always there, and they're willing sometimes to give you an extension on an assignment.

40:33Very flexible. Yes. Yeah. They can do that. But often people just wanna keep going with the rhythm. Yeah. And now so so there is that flexibility. Well, let's let's see about any questions, and then we can just see if there's anything else that you'd like to add, Eileen, and and I can give some details just about the program. Mhmm. Let's go to questions and answers here and see if there's anything. Is there a clergy discount? There is. So the way that you'll see right now, we actually have a discount, a 10% discount for anyone that's active in ministry in the church and, you know, their faith community. But that discount kicks in for the for the third course on. We just reconfigured the the entrance into the program, and we've made it to tiers just from the experience that we've had.

41:33So now we have people come into the first and second program first and second course, with just an easier application process and try it out and see how online learning is for them. They're beauty two beautiful courses. The first two courses, the first one is just about the whole history of spiritual direction, what it is, what it isn't. Just kind of deep diving deep into the tradition there and and also doing some just reflection about your experience of spiritual growth in your life and what it has been like and who have been the people that have helped you and how has that been. Right? And then the second one is a deeper dive into just a human development and also into your own human development because one of the things that we want our spiritual directors and training is to grow in self knowledge and self awareness.

42:26So so those two courses just give you a lot of great information and experiences that are just so worthwhile. But after that, to get into the third course, you have to go through an interview. We ask you for, a couple more letters of recommendation. And, and because we feel at that time, you really have clear that this is probably for you, because the third, fourth, fifth, and sixth course are really you know, get into training and you know? And so we want people to kind of make that decision before they go into that. So we really feel like we've kinda teed it up with the first two courses. So the discount now begins with the third course, and it's 10%. Then this is how often do you need to meet online?

43:23How many hours do you need to devote a week? So, you really, it depends on each course, but there's not necessarily, an online meeting. We just re as I said, we just reconfigured the first course, and we'll be doing that for the second course. And in the first course, we have put an optional online meeting. The course is six eight weeks long, so there's six of them. So you can participate in those if you want to. You don't have to. There's other ways to do your assignments. It's just because we saw with the students' evaluations that they did wanna have the opportunity to meet with a professor and talk about things, and so we kinda just set that up now in this new version that we created. And then it takes we tell our students to set aside about six to nine hours a week while they're take while they're in their courses for the program.

44:20And that's you know, we, as I said, it this was built by curriculum experts, so they actually do their math. And they they, you know, we're always talking about, like, no. We can't add more readings here. We've gotta figure it because, because we don't wanna go over this time, what it you know, we wanna stay to what we created the courses to be. So it's six to nine hours a week. The dates of the residency, if you go on to the DMU, the Divine Mercy University website, up in the left hand corner, you can find something that's called calendar. Drop it down, and it has the academic calendar of the university. So the dates of the residencies are there. In fact, I just approved the next year's calendar, so it should be going up pretty soon.

45:07So, you'll be able to see the dates for the residencies for this year and then all the way through the next year's academic calendar, so through summer of twenty twenty five. So we try to have those published at a lot in advance, just so that you can kinda know and see. If there is a time where you can't take a class a term, because you can't get to the residency that term, you just take a leave of absence for that term, and you jump in the next term. We offer all the courses, all six courses, every term that we run. So sometimes that happens. You just jump back in. Some what happens, though, is sometimes you move from the cohort that you had to a new cohort. Let's see. So I think I answered that.

45:58So those are the questions that are here. I think think you had a view in the chat too, Maria. Oh, okay. Great. Okay. Say, okay. Is there a religious order whose spirituality undergird? Okay. So this is from Troy. So, Troy, we created this program to really dive into all the rich spiritualities within the Catholic tradition. There's not a spirituality that undergirds, our approach. We just feel like the richness of the Catholic tradition, the Christian tradition has so much spiritualities. And we also wanted to give space for each one. You know, sometimes people come with a spirituality already. So this course is kind of just allows all those spiritualities to find, kind of like this way to be a spiritual director and then to add in their own spirituality.

47:01No? What is the religious order spiritual roots of DMU? I kind of answered it there. DMU is, every Catholic university, I think it's all over the world like this, but definitely in The United States, if it's not, connected to a diocese, has to be sponsored by a religious congregation. So when DMU was created, the founding members chose the legionaries of Christ to be the order that sponsored it. So the legionaries of Christ are the order that sponsors the university and the fact that they are, there's a few places on the board that always needs to have a legionary. I think it's two, And the president of the university will always be a legionary, and the chaplains. So this is in the bylaws of the university.

47:58So that's, that's just how that is. I know that there's some mention of other Christian based main involvement program, but the program is a 100% based on Catholic principles. Yes, Joy. It's based a 100% on Catholic principles. But it's very scripture based. Very we created it for a very similar audience as we have the other programs here at the university is that anyone that wants to learn within the Catholic Christian tradition. So there's definitely people, in the program, an Episcopalian minister, a Lutheran minister also. I mean, there are different other faith traditions that are drawn to it even though they know that it's what they're receiving are is the Catholic traditions and from the Catholic point of view.

48:46Right? And then in our residencies, we have mass every day. Rosalia. What are the moral requirements to become a spiritual director? Not sure what you're saying about that, what that means. What what are the more requirements? I don't know, Riza, if you can explain that a little bit more. Okay. So, Martha, don't worry. I haven't gotten into the cost of the program yet, so I will I will talk about that now. Let me just go back to the question answer because there are some questions there I see. Okay. Yeah. They're the ones. Eileen, is there anything that I answered? Do you wanna chime in on anything? Oh, I don't think so. I just just kinda wanna also piggyback on what you were saying. I thought that was really beautiful in DMU that we really had a, a very good overall surface glance at many different spiritualities, and I really enjoyed that, how you would incorporate readings through Saint John of the Cross, also, you know, studies on Saint Therese's psychology, Ignatian rules of discernment, like, really dipping into many different things to give us kind of a broad scope and also to give freedom to each of our own particular spiritualities.

50:18My own spirituality came in with a very strong Ignatian approach, and I I also received a a little Carmelite there going on. And so I I really enjoyed that because for myself as a spiritual director, I have maybe thirty, forty directees at any given time, and they are all different spiritualities, some of them different faiths. And so for me, that was very helpful to understand some of the different things that maybe I wasn't diving into as much. So I really appreciate that approach as well. Mhmm. Yeah. Definitely. And I mean, we always try, we try to weave into the program all the people, you know, the great speakers about spiritual direction and the spiritual life. Quite a feat. Okay. Okay.

51:05So I will they wanna know about when is the next class, so I will talk about those facts. Just that. So resilient. What I mean usually, SDR religious people with a background of Fidelity Church, which is what is it like for a layperson? Well, you know what? There is a saying that says the habit doesn't make the monk. Right? So just because someone's a priest or religious doesn't sometimes mean all that we think it should mean. Right? But so I think the, you know, we want to see that the person is in good standing in their faith community. One of the letters of recommendations is to speak to that, that they're being recommended by their faith community to do this training. So that's really something, you know, and that they're in good standing.

51:52We we ask for a letter of recommendation from friends that have known them for a while from their own spiritual director. Right? Even though that one's a little bit different in nature because we know that that relationship is confidential, but we're we just ask them about the person then the character of the person. So, yeah, we try to get those letters of recommendations in order to help us as well as, you know, having the different, points where we touch, with them or get them on a Zoom call in order to just kind of understand this. So that's that's the way. And then, you know, through the residencies, we get to know them more. And and I think, yeah, that's kind of how that works. Oh, so this is a loaded question, Maria Elena.

52:44How do you reconcile the theories and principles of counseling psychology and psychotherapy to Catholic tenants that may challenge the experience and theories of the practitioner? Well, this is what the work of the university does, and this is the hard work that the university has done throughout their history, which is to, kind of you know, Paul Vitz is which is one of the great founding faculty members of the university. It says it's it's bringing psychology back to where it was born, which was in the Catholic church, you know, and the deep understanding of the human person. So, yeah, it it's definitely a hard work, but we're up to it, and that's kind of that's what we spend our time doing.

53:23So we don't have a lot of time. I want to to answer your questions. This is the cost of the program. There's six courses, so each course costs 600 $800, and the residencies cost $1,100. That residency fee covers your lodging materials, all the teaching, most of the meals. You're responsible just for three of your dinners and, of course, your traveling costs to and from the university, in fact, of how you get here. I mean, if you get to the the airport, the shuttle takes you, and they don't charge you for that to get you back and forth to the university. Right? But that so that's what that covers. In total, I think it's 7,007 thousand $7,000, I think, in total that comes up to it. And then as you go through practicum, which is a learning and actually using your skills as a spiritual director and being supervised, we do charge for you to have supervision during that time if if you need that, or just enrolled in practicum.

54:33The program takes two years to complete. The next term that's opening is in May. It's called the summer term. It opens at the end of May. You let me show you the admissions adviser. This is his name. This is his email, and this is his phone number. And you can those phone that calls go directly to him. It also access text messages, so you can reach out to him. His name is Greg Shapiro. He is happy to get on a conversation with you and just explain more about the program, answer your own questions about it. He is now accepting you know, we're accepting applications for the May term. So, and then the entry point for the program is we run three terms a year. So, there's an entry point for the May term, then we run a term that begins in the end of August, and then we also run a term that begins beginning of January.

55:31So you can jump in just whenever, when those terms start. Few more questions coming up here at the end, I think. Let me just make sure. Yes. All these prices are US dollars. Oh, thank you. I mean, I see you may you answered that. This is a onetime certificate. Yeah. We don't have people come in and take their certificate again. We are trying to produce continued education, but we're we've got a lot of work to do. So it is a onetime certificate. Yes. You take one class at a time, and you have to pass the previous class in order to take the next one. It's just pass or fail grades. Maria, can you speak as well to those that might have questions about the payment? Because that was also really helpful to be able to pay per class instead of all at once.

56:24You pay it's pay as you go. Right? So as you, register for each class, you pay for it. So it's, yeah, it's not an upfront fee or or everything all at once. It's just pay as you go. And and so you if you can't take a course, you can take a leave of absence for that term and just not register for that course. Sometimes people do that. Right? There was a question about how many weeks are kind of off in between courses since we only offer three terms a year. There's about eight to ten weeks between courses except in the summertime. Between the summer and the fall semester, there's just a month. But all the other courses have about eight to ten weeks. Oh my. I always like to answer all the questions.

57:08You may know. Great. While we have everyone here, I think we're done. I think I did it. You did great. Mhmm. I thank you for your questions because it's always great to have them and have the opportunity to just kind of answer what you would need. If you're interested in the program, pre reach out to Greg. He's more than happy to get on a call for you. He, this is what he spends his time doing. And, just just talking to people and answer their questions, trying to see if this is a good fit for them and what they're looking for. So thank you so much. Eileen, thank you so much for getting on with us and just sharing with us. Okay. Praying for all of you as you just learned. Yeah. Yeah. But you definitely.

57:56Right? You were saying that that every we'll keep them every every one of them in your in our prayers just to find out what the Lord wants for them, the next step. So thank you so much. God bless you all. Thank you. You. Thank you.